LATIN REQUEST: I need a spell that Dumbledore uses to summon the Sorting Hat. So far, Google Translate on “Attend, Sorter!” got me “Adtendite Ordinarium!” but I’ll take other appropriate phrases if they’ve got better translations.
Premise:
I’ve studied latin for about 5 years, so I’m not going to use gTranslate for Latin :)
my dictionary sounds better for this scope.
Verb:
The verb prodeo [pro-eo] is the best I could think.
the particle pro- means something like in front of, even between (me) and something, or near (me): this last one is peculiar and happens only sometimes.
eo is the most common and even one of the ancient verbs (that’s why is defective/irregular) that means simply go.
So when Cicero (Br. 39) said :
prodire in lucem
he probably meant something like
come out from dark in the light.
Other times is used, like in Caesar (Bg):
in proelium prodire
that should sound like
come out and go to the battle.
OT: (If you need for other occasion for a “incantation” in a more militar situation , a good one could be subject in ablative case+ proelium proditu (prò-e-li-um prò-di-tu), but that’s another topic :) )
Even flowers prodent and in a figurative way, even
lacrimae de gaudio prodeunt
(Apuleio)
tears of joy appeared/came out of (him)
but this sense doesn’t matter that much for our problem, i guess.
Subject:
Since you don’t use “Hat” for the Sorting Hat, but it seems to me that you want to stress the fact that this “entity” is that important because is a Sorter I would guess
Deligitor
would be the best.
Also Eligitor would be nice there is a subtle difference: the last one means “the one who choose what he prefears”.
Deligo[de-lego → de-eligo] means choose what (or who) is more apt to a peculiar aim.
A Cicero’s quote:
ex civitate in senatum delecti
meant something like
choosen among the cives/citizens to form the senate(to be senators)
Deligitor is the noun formed by the verb, means “who choose, who looks for the fittest men (or stuff) for a task and choose them for that task”
The spell:
JKR spells are really more naive, but that’s not the point: they are not meant to be real Latin, but they are meant to sound like “Ancient powerful spell with complicated and forgotten words”, imho.
The best grammatical looking phrase would be:
Deligitor prodi
that means “Chooser, be present”
because the verb is in the imperative mode, second person singular: prod-i.
But that doesn’t sound that good, imho.
A more free construction could be
Deligitor prode
That literally means “(the)Chooser has come to be present here.”
and could be quite nice (not too far from Latin, not too boring for a fan-fic).
Or dozen of combination of this ones:
deligit[or;-us,-um] prod[i,it,es,
oh! that could be nice also:
deligitor prodeas
is exhortative(or exhorting, i don’t know) conjunctive, that simply means:
please, do this or would you mind doing this or it could be perfect/awesome if you bother to do this
that would sound like Chooser, please come here asap , or Sorting hat, come here since we need you
I’ll stop here, waiting for some feedback, because otherwise my mind would be lost in this long trip.
‘Deligitor prodi’ was my favorite. Not sure what you didn’t like about it, but the longword-shortword construction gives it a nice imperative feel, and I mildly prefer ‘prodi’ to ‘prode’.
fluo and its derived verbs (like ad-fluo → affluo) refer mainly to a liquid that flows.
I don’t think is the more appropriate.
Edit: also pileus is a different hat:
it is the one used by ex-slaves to mark their acquired freedom.
It was high and conic, only made by wool, with no brim.
(I know they are nitpicking but maybe they could improve the book and could help sound more professional)
The original reference to liquid is of course correct, e.g. ibi Isara Rhodanusque amnes … confluunt in unum—where the rivers Rhodanus and Isere flow together [merge], but it can also be used figuratively, for example for crowds of people “flowing” together: undique ad hoc spectaculum confluere. In the context of calling the hat, I was thinking of “flow of magic” mainly to have a more nicely sounding phrase.
I agree that pileus is not a good choice, because it is actually dome-shaped and the basis for the pileolus that is worn by roman-catholic dignitarys, but then the Romans never had the concept of a pointy wizards hat.
Also it was not technically the sign of an ex-slave—it might gained recognition, because the were allowed to wear the pileus—but usually worn by fishermen and workmen.
Anyway, when I realized that Eliezer is after a phrase that emphasizes the deciding/choosing trait of the hat, I remembered a description of a football (soccer) game in latin, and the term it used to describe the referee, so here’s my new proposition:
disceptator, accede!
the one who decides/arbitrates, step up / step here! (imperative form)
or one could also use
disceptator, appare!
which again is the imperative of apparere—appear/show yourself
Edit: You might have confused the pileus with the phrygian cap, which is sort of pointy and looks like a smurf cap. Funny factoid, the french revolutioners mixed it up as well and chose the phrygian as a symbol of liberty.
Wait, you mean you wrote so condescendingly about JKRs use of fake Latin while you don’t know any Latin yourself? That’s disappointing.
That aside, shouldn’t you contact someone who actually does speak Latin to think up some spells for you from the ground up instead of sort of reverse-engineering them from English? Because that’s exactly what Rowling did and look how that worked out...
LATIN REQUEST: I need a spell that Dumbledore uses to summon the Sorting Hat. So far, Google Translate on “Attend, Sorter!” got me “Adtendite Ordinarium!” but I’ll take other appropriate phrases if they’ve got better translations.
Premise: I’ve studied latin for about 5 years, so I’m not going to use gTranslate for Latin :)
my dictionary sounds better for this scope.
Verb:
The verb prodeo [pro-eo] is the best I could think.
the particle pro- means something like in front of, even between (me) and something, or near (me): this last one is peculiar and happens only sometimes.
eo is the most common and even one of the ancient verbs (that’s why is defective/irregular) that means simply go.
So when Cicero (Br. 39) said :
he probably meant something like
come out from dark in the light.
Other times is used, like in Caesar (Bg):
that should sound like
come out and go to the battle.
OT:
(If you need for other occasion for a “incantation” in a more militar situation , a good one could be subject in ablative case+ proelium proditu (prò-e-li-um prò-di-tu), but that’s another topic :) )
Even flowers prodent and in a figurative way, even
(Apuleio)
tears of joy appeared/came out of (him)
but this sense doesn’t matter that much for our problem, i guess.
Subject:
Since you don’t use “Hat” for the Sorting Hat, but it seems to me that you want to stress the fact that this “entity” is that important because is a Sorter I would guess
Deligitor
would be the best.
Also Eligitor would be nice there is a subtle difference: the last one means “the one who choose what he prefears”. Deligo[de-lego → de-eligo] means choose what (or who) is more apt to a peculiar aim.
A Cicero’s quote:
meant something like
choosen among the cives/citizens to form the senate(to be senators)
Deligitor is the noun formed by the verb, means “who choose, who looks for the fittest men (or stuff) for a task and choose them for that task”
The spell: JKR spells are really more naive, but that’s not the point: they are not meant to be real Latin, but they are meant to sound like “Ancient powerful spell with complicated and forgotten words”, imho.
The best grammatical looking phrase would be:
Deligitor prodi
that means “Chooser, be present”
because the verb is in the imperative mode, second person singular: prod-i. But that doesn’t sound that good, imho.
A more free construction could be
Deligitor prode
That literally means “(the)Chooser has come to be present here.”
and could be quite nice (not too far from Latin, not too boring for a fan-fic).
Or dozen of combination of this ones: deligit[or;-us,-um] prod[i,it,es,
oh! that could be nice also:
deligitor prodeas
is exhortative(or exhorting, i don’t know) conjunctive, that simply means:
please, do this or would you mind doing this or it could be perfect/awesome if you bother to do this
that would sound like Chooser, please come here asap , or Sorting hat, come here since we need you
I’ll stop here, waiting for some feedback, because otherwise my mind would be lost in this long trip.
I had a lot of fun reading this post.
‘Deligitor prodi’ was my favorite. Not sure what you didn’t like about it, but the longword-shortword construction gives it a nice imperative feel, and I mildly prefer ‘prodi’ to ‘prode’.
Upvoted for ‘deligitor prodeas’.
Pervenit Judex translates to “Here Comes the Judge”.
...that is oddly appropriate.
What’s wrong with “Accio Sorting Hat”?
Accio Ordinarium?
This is a special spell, not Accio.
pileum dictionis, affluere!
It would make Vergilius turn over in his grave, but it roughly means “(felt)hat (of the) talking, flow (to me) (i.e. appear)”
took the liberty to base it on the german translation of the sorting hat, which is “talking hat”
Edit: Adtendite Ordinarium means something like “mind the order”. google really sucks at latin ;)
fluo and its derived verbs (like ad-fluo → affluo) refer mainly to a liquid that flows. I don’t think is the more appropriate. Edit: also pileus is a different hat: it is the one used by ex-slaves to mark their acquired freedom. It was high and conic, only made by wool, with no brim. (I know they are nitpicking but maybe they could improve the book and could help sound more professional)
The original reference to liquid is of course correct, e.g. ibi Isara Rhodanusque amnes … confluunt in unum—where the rivers Rhodanus and Isere flow together [merge], but it can also be used figuratively, for example for crowds of people “flowing” together: undique ad hoc spectaculum confluere. In the context of calling the hat, I was thinking of “flow of magic” mainly to have a more nicely sounding phrase.
I agree that pileus is not a good choice, because it is actually dome-shaped and the basis for the pileolus that is worn by roman-catholic dignitarys, but then the Romans never had the concept of a pointy wizards hat. Also it was not technically the sign of an ex-slave—it might gained recognition, because the were allowed to wear the pileus—but usually worn by fishermen and workmen.
Anyway, when I realized that Eliezer is after a phrase that emphasizes the deciding/choosing trait of the hat, I remembered a description of a football (soccer) game in latin, and the term it used to describe the referee, so here’s my new proposition:
disceptator, accede!
the one who decides/arbitrates, step up / step here! (imperative form)
or one could also use
disceptator, appare!
which again is the imperative of apparere—appear/show yourself
Edit: You might have confused the pileus with the phrygian cap, which is sort of pointy and looks like a smurf cap. Funny factoid, the french revolutioners mixed it up as well and chose the phrygian as a symbol of liberty.
Wait, you mean you wrote so condescendingly about JKRs use of fake Latin while you don’t know any Latin yourself? That’s disappointing.
That aside, shouldn’t you contact someone who actually does speak Latin to think up some spells for you from the ground up instead of sort of reverse-engineering them from English? Because that’s exactly what Rowling did and look how that worked out...
Plus, if you do ever need to translate Latin, screw Google, Whitaker is your best friend. http://archives.nd.edu/words.html