The word “elitism” is vague and affect-laden. In order to have a productive conversation about the set of topics that the label “elitism” vaguely points towards, it is necessary to set aside that term and get into specifics, rather than letting the conversation revolve around the word “elitism”.
Before you started posting on Less Wrong, the word “elitism” (and its variants) rarely appeared on the website. You introduced the word to the conversation (e.g., here), and you have used it again and again (over a hundred times, according to your comment history). That is why some people have expressed their opinions in terms of the word “elitism” (where their opinion, roughly, is that they want Less Wrong to have high quality content). So if you just want people to stop using the word “elitism”, you should be able to accomplish that (for the most part) by not using the word “elitism.”
You let yourself get sidetracked from your goal of growing Less Wrong and decided to lead a largely irrelevant side conversation centered on the word “elitism” (what it means, whether it applies to Less Wrong, whether people might get the impression that it applies to Less Wrong, etc.). This discussion has been unproductive and lengthy, and you didn’t heed the signals to stop taking the conversation in that direction (which included downvotes, comments about how you should proceed differently, and the obvious lack of progress towards your goal).
If you weren’t offering to do work to help the site, I’d second Morendil’s suggestion that you stick to object-level conversations, at least for a while. Maybe once you’ve spent some more time here and gotten a better feel for the site and its users you could re-engage in meta-level conversations about improving Less Wrong. That still might be the best option in the actual situation.
Another potential option for moving forward is for you to focus on more concrete questions about improving the site which draw more directly on your web marketing expertise. Is there a standard menu of options that web marketing professionals use to help a site grow? Do some of those options stand a better chance of maintaining the site’s quality, or can they be tailored to do so? Are there proven techniques for preventing a drop in quality in the face of growth? If your company does this sort of thing, what kinds of conversations do you have with organizations to try to figure out how to increase their web presence in a way that’s consistent with their goals? You’re the one who has been leading this effort to improve the site; figure out how to lead it in a more productive direction. (And be aware that many Less Wrongers are losing their patience with you, or have already lost it. So don’t waste whatever attention you can get).
I don’t think you understand the very bad reaction I had to elitism. I feel that it is very important not to contribute to elitism (by some definitions like this one, which are not the same as the more popular interpretations here from what I can tell, though I didn’t know that before) and that it is also very important to avoid being judged as an elitist (by that definition). I feel so strongly about this that I wanted to quit. According to my poll, 20% have the same strong feelings I do.
Based on the fact that you didn’t seem to realize I was willing to quit over this and didn’t see further interaction as worthwhile unless it was determined that most people here do not support elitism (by the particular definition), I would have to guess that you have a radically different idea of what elitism is from the definition that I was using.
I have realized that I need to learn a lot more about other people’s ideas of elitism. This is an important topic to me. Would you be interested in explaining your ideas about elitism?
The word “elitism” is vague and affect-laden. In order to have a productive conversation about the set of topics that the label “elitism” vaguely points towards, it is necessary to set aside that term and get into specifics, rather than letting the conversation revolve around the word “elitism”.
Before you started posting on Less Wrong, the word “elitism” (and its variants) rarely appeared on the website. You introduced the word to the conversation (e.g., here), and you have used it again and again (over a hundred times, according to your comment history). That is why some people have expressed their opinions in terms of the word “elitism” (where their opinion, roughly, is that they want Less Wrong to have high quality content). So if you just want people to stop using the word “elitism”, you should be able to accomplish that (for the most part) by not using the word “elitism.”
You let yourself get sidetracked from your goal of growing Less Wrong and decided to lead a largely irrelevant side conversation centered on the word “elitism” (what it means, whether it applies to Less Wrong, whether people might get the impression that it applies to Less Wrong, etc.). This discussion has been unproductive and lengthy, and you didn’t heed the signals to stop taking the conversation in that direction (which included downvotes, comments about how you should proceed differently, and the obvious lack of progress towards your goal).
If you weren’t offering to do work to help the site, I’d second Morendil’s suggestion that you stick to object-level conversations, at least for a while. Maybe once you’ve spent some more time here and gotten a better feel for the site and its users you could re-engage in meta-level conversations about improving Less Wrong. That still might be the best option in the actual situation.
Another potential option for moving forward is for you to focus on more concrete questions about improving the site which draw more directly on your web marketing expertise. Is there a standard menu of options that web marketing professionals use to help a site grow? Do some of those options stand a better chance of maintaining the site’s quality, or can they be tailored to do so? Are there proven techniques for preventing a drop in quality in the face of growth? If your company does this sort of thing, what kinds of conversations do you have with organizations to try to figure out how to increase their web presence in a way that’s consistent with their goals? You’re the one who has been leading this effort to improve the site; figure out how to lead it in a more productive direction. (And be aware that many Less Wrongers are losing their patience with you, or have already lost it. So don’t waste whatever attention you can get).
I don’t think you understand the very bad reaction I had to elitism. I feel that it is very important not to contribute to elitism (by some definitions like this one, which are not the same as the more popular interpretations here from what I can tell, though I didn’t know that before) and that it is also very important to avoid being judged as an elitist (by that definition). I feel so strongly about this that I wanted to quit. According to my poll, 20% have the same strong feelings I do.
Based on the fact that you didn’t seem to realize I was willing to quit over this and didn’t see further interaction as worthwhile unless it was determined that most people here do not support elitism (by the particular definition), I would have to guess that you have a radically different idea of what elitism is from the definition that I was using.
I have realized that I need to learn a lot more about other people’s ideas of elitism. This is an important topic to me. Would you be interested in explaining your ideas about elitism?