Reading through some of the speculation on Mr. Hat and Cloak, it seems like some people are pretty confident that it’s Quirrell, whereas others don’t feel it’s decided. In particular this comment says:
Lots of things happen. It’s all too close to be sure of what parts are hints about what, except for Mr. Hat-and-Cloak, who we are to understand is most certainly Quirrell
But I felt like his behavior the last time I saw him didn’t fit with what I would have expected from Quirrell (despite the fact that Quirrell was my first guess at his identity the first time he was introduced, I’ve been updating away from that ever since).
I recall seeing speculation that H&C was Grindelwald or Sirius Black as well, but it’s hard to sort through all of the old discussion threads.
Could someone who’s been following the discussions give me a summary of what sorts of speculation has happened re: Hat-and-Cloak, and especially if there’s been any definitive answers given (i.e. posts from Eliezer)
So far all of H&C’s actions have benefited Quirrell, and his involvement in this particular plot(conveniently finding Draco just too late) all make him seem really really guilty. Normally in fiction he would be the red herring, but Eliezer has been talking a lot about how things he tries to make obvious are misinterpreted and how he doesn’t usually do Red Herrings.
Personally I think that if he wanted us to know for certain it was Quirrell he would have just flat-out showed us by now.
I think that’s because it would make for a better story for the audience and Harry to find out at once.
With H&C, if he is Quirrell, at this point in the plotting it would make more sense to just reveal it than to hint very strongly. And making two “It was Quirrell all along” reveals in the same fic seems silly to me.
There was speculation before Chapter 79, but H&C as anyone but a Hogwarts professor is killed by McGonagall’s comment;
Obliviation cannot be detected by any known means, but only a Professor could have cast that spell upon a student without alarm from the Hogwarts wards.
There’s some minor speculation that an ex-professor could have done it, and I suppose we could include Dumbledore and Lupin in the list, but Sirius and Grindelwald are ruled out (as of chapter 79).
Someone (sorry, I don’t remember who) commented that the apparent sloppiness of the Ground Hog Day attack may be from the need to explain to the reader what’s going on. It’s also been pointed out that being a Legilimens doesn’t guarantee competence in gaining trust, it just makes it easier to figure out that you haven’t. As is typical, YMMV.
Much hay has been made of the line
and recognition sent a jolt of terrified adrenaline bursting through her.
With some claiming that it means Hermione both recognizes and is terrified of the real H&C. Others claimed that was reading too much into the prose, and the terror might just be from realizing the situation in general. Again, YMMV.
Current speculation seems to focus on the motive, as in, who would want Draco dead, and/or who would want Hermione accused of trying to kill Draco.
It seems likely to me that it will all become moot once chapter 81 is released, so get your speculations in quickly!
A lot of the previous speculation was colored by the fact that H&C #2 was insufficiently clever to be Quirrell and insufficiently efficient to be a legilimens, but since then we have found out that legilimency can be detected months later so legilimens are back on the table, and the apparent lack of cleverness could be explained as an artifact of Eliezer trying to help the reader understand what was going on in that confusing passage.
Considering how much Rowling played with the side Snape was on, I certainly expect Eliezer to do so as well. I think it’s fairly clear that Snape has moved on from Lily now, but I’m not certain if we can yet predict which side he’ll choose now.
Also his remarks about his mentors not telling him something, which seems very likely to be that Lily was shallow.
Lily doesn’t really strike me as all that shallow. At least I haven’t seen much to suggest that she was more shallow than an average human female (with the emphasis there on the ‘human’). Even assuming Lily were particularly shallow—that isn’t the message that he needed from his mentor. Far more useful would be the message “quit being a pussy!”. For all intents and purposes it makes almost no difference to Snape how shallow Lily was.
This does not seem to follow as a reply to the grandparent.
Snape just had his first kiss because he wasted his life with a creepy obsession with a girl that was not available to him rather than growing up and living life like a sane person. Doesn’t everyone acknowledge/assume that?
One thing that may have prevented this unfortunate (and pathetic) turn of events may have been persuasive advice from mentors. Advice like “Lily is shallow” would have been better than nothing. Far more useful would be advice that encouraged the development of emotional self sufficiency and rudimentary ability to apply the concept of ‘fungibility’. Or a ticket to a Tim Minchin concert.
It fully explains his lack of skill in the dictionary attack, and the desperation, and sheds new light on the Quirrell/Snape forest conversation earlier.
If Quirrell knows that he has Snape as an ally (as Harry lost him given the speculation RE: Lily), and has removed Draco and Hermione from the picture (and he does seem very guilty) this seems like a relatively good time for him to come out of hiding, which also explains his behavior RE: the interrogation.
Reading through some of the speculation on Mr. Hat and Cloak, it seems like some people are pretty confident that it’s Quirrell, whereas others don’t feel it’s decided. In particular this comment says:
But I felt like his behavior the last time I saw him didn’t fit with what I would have expected from Quirrell (despite the fact that Quirrell was my first guess at his identity the first time he was introduced, I’ve been updating away from that ever since).
I recall seeing speculation that H&C was Grindelwald or Sirius Black as well, but it’s hard to sort through all of the old discussion threads.
Could someone who’s been following the discussions give me a summary of what sorts of speculation has happened re: Hat-and-Cloak, and especially if there’s been any definitive answers given (i.e. posts from Eliezer)
So far all of H&C’s actions have benefited Quirrell, and his involvement in this particular plot(conveniently finding Draco just too late) all make him seem really really guilty. Normally in fiction he would be the red herring, but Eliezer has been talking a lot about how things he tries to make obvious are misinterpreted and how he doesn’t usually do Red Herrings.
Personally I think that if he wanted us to know for certain it was Quirrell he would have just flat-out showed us by now.
He hasn’t flat-out showed us Quirrell is Voldemort, though.
I think that’s because it would make for a better story for the audience and Harry to find out at once.
With H&C, if he is Quirrell, at this point in the plotting it would make more sense to just reveal it than to hint very strongly. And making two “It was Quirrell all along” reveals in the same fic seems silly to me.
Ur ernyyl gevrq, hagvy crbcyr pbaivaprq uvz abg gb.
But you’re not supposed to say that without rot13.
Edited. Also, Hey, that’s my line!
Agreed. This also makes me think it isn’t Quirrell.
There was speculation before Chapter 79, but H&C as anyone but a Hogwarts professor is killed by McGonagall’s comment;
There’s some minor speculation that an ex-professor could have done it, and I suppose we could include Dumbledore and Lupin in the list, but Sirius and Grindelwald are ruled out (as of chapter 79).
Someone (sorry, I don’t remember who) commented that the apparent sloppiness of the Ground Hog Day attack may be from the need to explain to the reader what’s going on. It’s also been pointed out that being a Legilimens doesn’t guarantee competence in gaining trust, it just makes it easier to figure out that you haven’t. As is typical, YMMV.
Much hay has been made of the line
With some claiming that it means Hermione both recognizes and is terrified of the real H&C. Others claimed that was reading too much into the prose, and the terror might just be from realizing the situation in general. Again, YMMV.
Current speculation seems to focus on the motive, as in, who would want Draco dead, and/or who would want Hermione accused of trying to kill Draco.
It seems likely to me that it will all become moot once chapter 81 is released, so get your speculations in quickly!
A lot of the previous speculation was colored by the fact that H&C #2 was insufficiently clever to be Quirrell and insufficiently efficient to be a legilimens, but since then we have found out that legilimency can be detected months later so legilimens are back on the table, and the apparent lack of cleverness could be explained as an artifact of Eliezer trying to help the reader understand what was going on in that confusing passage.
Everyone is back on the table IMO. Here’s my speculation that H&C is Snape.
Considering how much Rowling played with the side Snape was on, I certainly expect Eliezer to do so as well. I think it’s fairly clear that Snape has moved on from Lily now, but I’m not certain if we can yet predict which side he’ll choose now.
I’m hoping it’s the side with a bunch of cute Slytherin girls in his dungeon...
It’s not clear to me. What has Snape done or said that makes you think that?
He was making out with jailbait. (Far from proof, but evidence.)
Also his remarks about his mentors not telling him something, which seems very likely to be that Lily was shallow.
Or, perhaps, that his obsession with her was pathetic and he needed to move on with his life.
Lily doesn’t really strike me as all that shallow. At least I haven’t seen much to suggest that she was more shallow than an average human female (with the emphasis there on the ‘human’). Even assuming Lily were particularly shallow—that isn’t the message that he needed from his mentor. Far more useful would be the message “quit being a pussy!”. For all intents and purposes it makes almost no difference to Snape how shallow Lily was.
So then why did he just have his first kiss?
This does not seem to follow as a reply to the grandparent.
Snape just had his first kiss because he wasted his life with a creepy obsession with a girl that was not available to him rather than growing up and living life like a sane person. Doesn’t everyone acknowledge/assume that?
One thing that may have prevented this unfortunate (and pathetic) turn of events may have been persuasive advice from mentors. Advice like “Lily is shallow” would have been better than nothing. Far more useful would be advice that encouraged the development of emotional self sufficiency and rudimentary ability to apply the concept of ‘fungibility’. Or a ticket to a Tim Minchin concert.
Because he’s a misantropic nerd who’s spent his life obsessed with a dead woman?
I find that theory extremely persuasive.
It fully explains his lack of skill in the dictionary attack, and the desperation, and sheds new light on the Quirrell/Snape forest conversation earlier.
If Quirrell knows that he has Snape as an ally (as Harry lost him given the speculation RE: Lily), and has removed Draco and Hermione from the picture (and he does seem very guilty) this seems like a relatively good time for him to come out of hiding, which also explains his behavior RE: the interrogation.
H&C is Harry Potter from the future, trying to stop his own inevitable descent into darkness.
Also, this is false.