I agree as far as this goes. But remember that we don’t chiefly want to prevent people calling women ugly. We chiefly want to prevent this, because we think it increases actual rape.
Is the ‘we’ royal, referring to some specific group you are a part of or a normative presumption that I, and the people in some group of which I am a part all must have this attitude? Because for my part I am perfectly ok with being outraged at insulting women by calling them ugly for its own sake and not due to any belief in some complicated causal chain whereby talking about ugliness causes rape and the torture of puppies.
Would you actually feel surprised if you found out the belief that women only date jerks causally increases talk of rape fantasies, and that this increases rape?
I would be somewhat skeptical, read the details of such a study closely and in particular look at the degree of the purported effect as well as the significance. I would be equally as surprised to find that belief that women only dated jerks reduced incidence of rape due to the other obvious causal chain (involving reducing sexual frustration by identifying and implementing those elements of ‘jerkiness’ that are effective).
Yvain seems to have deleted the strawman I responded to (which supports the theory that he erred due to writing a long comment). By “we” I mean people who object to the unproven assertion that women only like jerks. The great-grandparent claims that a “very large contingent” of us make shy men feel bad. Yvain uses the analogy of calling a woman ugly, and originally claimed that people felt like they couldn’t condemn one harm without committing the other.
Nobody on Earth literally thinks that way. Whatever Yvain observed likely stemmed from the desire to prevent rape. Though quite possibly some of it went too far or got tied up with other motives.
If you mean the quoted claim, does your previous misunderstanding cause you to update your belief in your own motive-grasping powers?
I don’t believe I said I misunderstood anything and looking back at what I have previously said doesn’t lead me to that conclusion either. I just didn’t see any point in being more confrontational than polite disagreement. (And I give myself a big burst of self-approval reward for my restraint.)
Based on other times I have noticed that I misunderstood something I expect that I would update rather significantly if such were the case. I hate making mistakes like that.
Is the ‘we’ royal, referring to some specific group you are a part of or a normative presumption that I, and the people in some group of which I am a part all must have this attitude? Because for my part I am perfectly ok with being outraged at insulting women by calling them ugly for its own sake and not due to any belief in some complicated causal chain whereby talking about ugliness causes rape and the torture of puppies.
I would be somewhat skeptical, read the details of such a study closely and in particular look at the degree of the purported effect as well as the significance. I would be equally as surprised to find that belief that women only dated jerks reduced incidence of rape due to the other obvious causal chain (involving reducing sexual frustration by identifying and implementing those elements of ‘jerkiness’ that are effective).
Yvain seems to have deleted the strawman I responded to (which supports the theory that he erred due to writing a long comment). By “we” I mean people who object to the unproven assertion that women only like jerks. The great-grandparent claims that a “very large contingent” of us make shy men feel bad. Yvain uses the analogy of calling a woman ugly, and originally claimed that people felt like they couldn’t condemn one harm without committing the other.
Nobody on Earth literally thinks that way. Whatever Yvain observed likely stemmed from the desire to prevent rape. Though quite possibly some of it went too far or got tied up with other motives.
Ok. I don’t believe your claim about the way the world is but I think I understand what you are saying.
If you mean the quoted claim, does your previous misunderstanding cause you to update your belief in your own motive-grasping powers?
I don’t believe I said I misunderstood anything and looking back at what I have previously said doesn’t lead me to that conclusion either. I just didn’t see any point in being more confrontational than polite disagreement. (And I give myself a big burst of self-approval reward for my restraint.)
Based on other times I have noticed that I misunderstood something I expect that I would update rather significantly if such were the case. I hate making mistakes like that.