So your social experience is different in this respect?
I’ve never experienced this example in particular, but I would not expect such a backlash. Can you think of another scenario with non-moral advice that I have likely experienced?
Can you tell me anything about the “advice culture” you have experience with?
For example, I’ve had some experience with Iranian culture, and it is very different from American culture. It’s much more combative (in the sense of combat vs nurture, not necessarily real combativeness—although I think they have a higher preference/tolerance for heated arguments as well). I was told several times that the bad thing about american culture is that if someone has a problem with you they won’t tell you to your face, instead they’ll still try to be nice. I sometimes found the blunt advice (criticism) from Iranians overwhelming and emotionally difficult to handle.
I don’t strongly relate to any of these descriptions. I can say that I don’t feel like I have to pretend advice from equals is more helpful than it is, which I suppose means its not face. The most common way to reject advice is a comment like “eh, whatever” and ignoring it. Some nerds get really mad at this and seem to demand intellectual debate. This is not well received. Most people give advice with the expectation of intellectual debate only on crypto-moral topics (this is also not well received generally, but the speaker seems to accept that as an “identity cost”), or not at all.
You mean advice to diet, or “technical” advice once its established that person wants to diet? I don’t have experience with either, but the first is definitely crypto-moral.
Ok. My mental sim doesn’t expect any backlash in this type of situation. My first thought is it’s just super obvious why the advice might apply to you and not to him; but, this doesn’t really seem correct. For one thing, it might not be super obvious. For another, I think there are cases where it’s pretty obvious, but I nonetheless anticipate a backlash.
So I’m not sure what’s going on with my mental sim. Maybe I just have a super-broad ‘crypto-moral detector’ that goes off way more often than yours (w/o explicitly labeling things as crypto-moral for me).
So I’m not sure what’s going on with my mental sim. Maybe I just have a super-broad ‘crypto-moral detector’ that goes off way more often than yours (w/o explicitly labeling things as crypto-moral for me).
Maybe. How were your intuitions before you encountered LW? If you already had a hypocrisy intuition, then trying to internalize the rationalist perspective might have lead it to ignore the morality-distinction.
I’ve never experienced this example in particular, but I would not expect such a backlash. Can you think of another scenario with non-moral advice that I have likely experienced?
Can you tell me anything about the “advice culture” you have experience with?
For example, I’ve had some experience with Iranian culture, and it is very different from American culture. It’s much more combative (in the sense of combat vs nurture, not necessarily real combativeness—although I think they have a higher preference/tolerance for heated arguments as well). I was told several times that the bad thing about american culture is that if someone has a problem with you they won’t tell you to your face, instead they’ll still try to be nice. I sometimes found the blunt advice (criticism) from Iranians overwhelming and emotionally difficult to handle.
I don’t strongly relate to any of these descriptions. I can say that I don’t feel like I have to pretend advice from equals is more helpful than it is, which I suppose means its not face. The most common way to reject advice is a comment like “eh, whatever” and ignoring it. Some nerds get really mad at this and seem to demand intellectual debate. This is not well received. Most people give advice with the expectation of intellectual debate only on crypto-moral topics (this is also not well received generally, but the speaker seems to accept that as an “identity cost”), or not at all.
Diet advice?
You mean advice to diet, or “technical” advice once its established that person wants to diet? I don’t have experience with either, but the first is definitely crypto-moral.
What’s definitely not crypto-moral?
My father playing golf with me today, telling me to lean down more to stop them going out left so much.
Ok. My mental sim doesn’t expect any backlash in this type of situation. My first thought is it’s just super obvious why the advice might apply to you and not to him; but, this doesn’t really seem correct. For one thing, it might not be super obvious. For another, I think there are cases where it’s pretty obvious, but I nonetheless anticipate a backlash.
So I’m not sure what’s going on with my mental sim. Maybe I just have a super-broad ‘crypto-moral detector’ that goes off way more often than yours (w/o explicitly labeling things as crypto-moral for me).
Maybe. How were your intuitions before you encountered LW? If you already had a hypocrisy intuition, then trying to internalize the rationalist perspective might have lead it to ignore the morality-distinction.