As a lot of you are probably already aware, testosterone level is considered a top predictor of violent crime. There are prescriptions that lower testosterone, so why do we still have violent crime?
I’ve been told there are two obstacles to treatment:
One, people with such excessively high testosterone that it causes them to commit crimes (most of them are men) feel strongly that reducing testosterone would make them less manly.
Two, our legal and ethical systems are such that forcing people, even convicted criminals, to undergo medical treatments is frowned on.
Here’s something that might work for both:
I bet the condition begins in the teen years—during the time when parents can still make the decision as to whether their children should be tested for testosterone over-production and receive medication. What if, as part of a yearly checkup, doctors were to ask questions designed to find out whether the teens that come to their office (boys AND girls—women can get it, too) have been experiencing signs of testosterone over production. Free yearly exams for teens could be offered to poor teens who aren’t covered by health insurance and free testosterone prescriptions could be offered to anyone with high testosterone that meets an income requirement. Even if they later decided to go off the meds as adults, this would at least make sure that they know about their condition and know that there is a treatment, giving them an option that they may not even know about otherwise. Perhaps the ones that go off of their medication will decide, during their time in jail, that the medication is a good idea after all and go back on it. That could make jail time much more effective if it doesn’t prevent crime entirely.
We could ask stars and athletes to participate by publicly revealing their testosterone levels. I’ve read the testosterone levels of violent criminals can be ten times as high as the testosterone levels of other criminals. If the testosterone levels of admired and manly men are well-known, then people who have so much more testosterone that it puts them into a state that I imagine is similar to a ’roids rage will have reason to feel manly being brought down to the same testosterone level of Michael Jordan or Arnold Schwarzenegger (or whoever is idolized this week—I have no idea who teenagers and violent criminals idolize).
Also, I have to wonder if people with incredibly high testosterone might qualify as having lost touch with reality or meeting some legal definition of insanity that would qualify them for, at the very least, temporary involuntary testosterone reduction? I say “temporary testosterone reduction” because IF the person can be brought back to reality for even a few days they may voluntarily decide to maintain treatment.
What sort of test would have to be administered to legally verify that they qualify by such a definition? For brain damage patients, you can do things like ask them their name and birthday and see if they know. With schizophrenics you can just ask them questions like “Are you Jesus?” and if they say “Yes” they’ve lost touch. Maybe we can figure out what the equivalent questions would be for people with dangerously high testosterone levels… something that would prove it if they are out of touch with reality and qualify them for treatment. For instance “Do you care whether you go to jail?” if they rant and rave about how they don’t care, then they’re not being influenced by the threat of punishment which keeps people from committing crimes—that’s dangerous. If you ask them whether they care about being seriously injured and they rave about how they don’t, then they’re a danger to themselves AND others. I’m pretty sure that at least one state uses “A danger to themselves and others.” as a qualification to hospitalize people who are having a mental health episode.
I’m not familiar enough with the law to know whether this would fly, but I think going in this direction could work.
Would you reconsider your idea if you found out that the most effective trauma surgeons were found to have unusually high levels of testosterone? Have you considered what other possible side effects might occur if this was carried out on a societal level? Would their be incentives for individuals to circumvent these restrictions?
Correlation is not causation. I’d have to see evidence that high testosterone was needed for trauma surgeons to be effective before I’d accept that it was a necessity.
What percentage of traumas are caused by violence? If excess testosterone were treated would the number of traumas decrease as well, making it unnecessary to have as many trauma surgeons?
As for whether I’ve considered what side effects would occur, no actually, I haven’t. That was a good reminder. This isn’t an idea I’ve thought about a lot yet so I haven’t gotten very far. Up until this point, I’d been thinking about it like a disease—you don’t justify failing to treat a disease by worrying about what society will be missing when those people are healthier.
Though, you could still wonder what might happen, sometimes consequences are unexpected. I don’t know that much about testosterone. Do you have suggestions?
I don’t think hormone tweaking is a humane cure for violence.
Honestly, I don’t think I would do anything about violence directly on a patient-level. The incidence of homicide has been steadily falling for centuries. This is a desirable trajectory.
Instead I would seek to improve the socio-economic conditions that I believe precipitate violent behavior. If poor people commit more violent crimes, then we should look for what factor of their condition contributes most to this behavior. I suspect it is the exaggerated boom-bust cycle engendered by living paycheck to paycheck and the disproportional value of status goods in low income communities.
I promote a post-scarcity society as the solution to violent crime. If this proves too distant a solution for your concern, then I would suggest a reform of social services to establish guaranteed housing, food, education, and healthcare through a non-monetary system. I would fund this through taxes and provide the services to even those who do not need them currently. I would attempt to establish these as universal rights that every government should provide on the risk of international sanction.
Testosterone alone doesn’t put you into a state of rage. It makes you want to dominate others.
High testosterone levels help guys to get layed. Convincing males to do something that gets them less layed will be hard.
If the testosterone levels of admired and manly men are well-known, then people who have so much more testosterone that it puts them into a state that I imagine is similar to a ’roids rage will have reason to feel manly being brought down to the same testosterone level of Michael Jordan or Arnold Schwarzenegger
Most of the youth will have lower testosterone levels than professional bodybuilders like Arnold Schwarzenegger once you correct for age. I think your proposal is likely to tell the youth that they will have to raise their level to keep up with the stars.
Idea: Solve Violent Crime
As a lot of you are probably already aware, testosterone level is considered a top predictor of violent crime. There are prescriptions that lower testosterone, so why do we still have violent crime?
I’ve been told there are two obstacles to treatment:
One, people with such excessively high testosterone that it causes them to commit crimes (most of them are men) feel strongly that reducing testosterone would make them less manly.
Two, our legal and ethical systems are such that forcing people, even convicted criminals, to undergo medical treatments is frowned on.
Here’s something that might work for both:
I bet the condition begins in the teen years—during the time when parents can still make the decision as to whether their children should be tested for testosterone over-production and receive medication. What if, as part of a yearly checkup, doctors were to ask questions designed to find out whether the teens that come to their office (boys AND girls—women can get it, too) have been experiencing signs of testosterone over production. Free yearly exams for teens could be offered to poor teens who aren’t covered by health insurance and free testosterone prescriptions could be offered to anyone with high testosterone that meets an income requirement. Even if they later decided to go off the meds as adults, this would at least make sure that they know about their condition and know that there is a treatment, giving them an option that they may not even know about otherwise. Perhaps the ones that go off of their medication will decide, during their time in jail, that the medication is a good idea after all and go back on it. That could make jail time much more effective if it doesn’t prevent crime entirely.
We could ask stars and athletes to participate by publicly revealing their testosterone levels. I’ve read the testosterone levels of violent criminals can be ten times as high as the testosterone levels of other criminals. If the testosterone levels of admired and manly men are well-known, then people who have so much more testosterone that it puts them into a state that I imagine is similar to a ’roids rage will have reason to feel manly being brought down to the same testosterone level of Michael Jordan or Arnold Schwarzenegger (or whoever is idolized this week—I have no idea who teenagers and violent criminals idolize).
Also, I have to wonder if people with incredibly high testosterone might qualify as having lost touch with reality or meeting some legal definition of insanity that would qualify them for, at the very least, temporary involuntary testosterone reduction? I say “temporary testosterone reduction” because IF the person can be brought back to reality for even a few days they may voluntarily decide to maintain treatment.
What sort of test would have to be administered to legally verify that they qualify by such a definition? For brain damage patients, you can do things like ask them their name and birthday and see if they know. With schizophrenics you can just ask them questions like “Are you Jesus?” and if they say “Yes” they’ve lost touch. Maybe we can figure out what the equivalent questions would be for people with dangerously high testosterone levels… something that would prove it if they are out of touch with reality and qualify them for treatment. For instance “Do you care whether you go to jail?” if they rant and rave about how they don’t care, then they’re not being influenced by the threat of punishment which keeps people from committing crimes—that’s dangerous. If you ask them whether they care about being seriously injured and they rave about how they don’t, then they’re a danger to themselves AND others. I’m pretty sure that at least one state uses “A danger to themselves and others.” as a qualification to hospitalize people who are having a mental health episode.
I’m not familiar enough with the law to know whether this would fly, but I think going in this direction could work.
Would you reconsider your idea if you found out that the most effective trauma surgeons were found to have unusually high levels of testosterone? Have you considered what other possible side effects might occur if this was carried out on a societal level? Would their be incentives for individuals to circumvent these restrictions?
Several problems:
Correlation is not causation. I’d have to see evidence that high testosterone was needed for trauma surgeons to be effective before I’d accept that it was a necessity.
What percentage of traumas are caused by violence? If excess testosterone were treated would the number of traumas decrease as well, making it unnecessary to have as many trauma surgeons?
As for whether I’ve considered what side effects would occur, no actually, I haven’t. That was a good reminder. This isn’t an idea I’ve thought about a lot yet so I haven’t gotten very far. Up until this point, I’d been thinking about it like a disease—you don’t justify failing to treat a disease by worrying about what society will be missing when those people are healthier.
Though, you could still wonder what might happen, sometimes consequences are unexpected. I don’t know that much about testosterone. Do you have suggestions?
I don’t think hormone tweaking is a humane cure for violence.
Honestly, I don’t think I would do anything about violence directly on a patient-level. The incidence of homicide has been steadily falling for centuries. This is a desirable trajectory.
Instead I would seek to improve the socio-economic conditions that I believe precipitate violent behavior. If poor people commit more violent crimes, then we should look for what factor of their condition contributes most to this behavior. I suspect it is the exaggerated boom-bust cycle engendered by living paycheck to paycheck and the disproportional value of status goods in low income communities.
I promote a post-scarcity society as the solution to violent crime. If this proves too distant a solution for your concern, then I would suggest a reform of social services to establish guaranteed housing, food, education, and healthcare through a non-monetary system. I would fund this through taxes and provide the services to even those who do not need them currently. I would attempt to establish these as universal rights that every government should provide on the risk of international sanction.
Testosterone alone doesn’t put you into a state of rage. It makes you want to dominate others.
High testosterone levels help guys to get layed. Convincing males to do something that gets them less layed will be hard.
Most of the youth will have lower testosterone levels than professional bodybuilders like Arnold Schwarzenegger once you correct for age. I think your proposal is likely to tell the youth that they will have to raise their level to keep up with the stars.