If Dumbledore saw a chance to possess one of the Deathly Hallows, he would never let it escape his grasp until the day he died.
Wait, is the message Harry got with his cloak from Dumbledore? (edit: he admits that in ch79). I thought Dumbledore refused to lie? And yet he’s letting the cloak escape his grasp while saying that.
(For a moment I thought he might be saying he wouldn’t let the chance escape his grasp, rather than the cloak itself, but that’s just silly, and there’s no particular reason why that would even be true, if the other isn’t.)
In ch71 he even refused to say “I solemnly swear I’m up to no good” for that reason, so that’s at least reason to think he claims to be a principled truth teller. And generally his behaviour seems consistent with that to me, like when he was teaching Harry obfuscation without lying, in ch18 when they were having their round of bargaining/blackmail over Snape’s behaviour, or his reaction after Harry pressed him on the matter of whether he killed Narcissa Malfoy.
Of course he could be willing to lie for sufficiently important reasons just like Harry (though Harry ended up that way under Quirrel’s influence), but I see no really pressing reason for that here, and if it comes out that the note is from him, Harry could call him on it.
It seems transparent to me that the whole thing with the cloak was a gambit to manipulate Harry. Harry’s trust in the note-sender’s warning, followed by Dumbledore’s noble and forgiving reaction, caused Harry to feel guilty for doubting Dumbledore, and to tend towards trusting him more and trusting people who told him to doubt Dumbledore less.
If Dumbledore was playing both sides (and thus lying his head off), he achieved his real objective (to make Harry trust him more) very elegantly.
It seems transparent to me that the whole thing with the cloak was a gambit to manipulate Harry.
Of course, I understand that part. It’s not really the point. My point is that at all other times he seems to do his manipulations by misleading without lying.
Another example: the note about the escape-out-of-Hogwarts portkey, which Dumbledore later admitted to have written (and now that I checked, he admitted to writing both). In it, he misleadingly suggests the portkey leads to the Salem’s Witches’ institute without actually saying so. (Quirrel picked up on that for Harry).
Dumbledore clearly is not above telling the truth with manipulative intent. I think it’s quite easy to make the case that the note was true to the word, that the portkey would eventually lead Harry to Salem. Same with the cloak message: Dumbledore has not let go of the chance to possess the Cloak. Harry remains firmly under Dumbledore’s ward, thus holding on to that chance.
Harry would have to be out of Dumbledore’s reach at Salem (unlikely, given the extent of Dumbledore’s influence and meddling).
The second note states that magical America can protect Harry from Dumbledore. If Harry isn’t outside Dumbledore’s reach at Salem, and Dumbledore knows this when writing the note, then he is lying.
Dumbledore would have to let Harry keep the cloak before sending him to Salem. (fairly likely, but not guaranteed).
Technically speaking, Dumbledore can’t take the Cloak from Harry by force, since its powers apparently rely on formal and deliberate transfer of ownership. I suppose he could resort to blackmail, but doing that before sending Harry to America would almost certainly result in complete breaking of ties (at least friendly ties).
Dumbledore would have to be alive (also fairly likely, although if this follows canon then Dumbledore will die at some point)
Given everything else that happens (with Hermione’s death as the strongest example), I think we can be fairly certain that this story will not follow canon plot developments except by coincidence.
The Salem Witches’ Institute in America accepts boys as well, despite the name. They are good people and would protect you even from Dumbledore, if you needed it. Britain holds that you need Dumbledore’s permission to emigrate to magical America, but magical America disagrees. So in the final extremity, get outside the wards of Hogwarts and tear in half the King of Hearts from this deck of cards.
What does the “so” at the start of the last sentence mean, if it does not connect the tearing of the card to the preceding statements about the Salem Witches’ Institute?
that’s just silly, and there’s no particular reason why that would even be true, if the other isn’t.
I was under the impression that in canon, at least, the Deathly Hallows are sensitive to ‘ownership,’ and so Dumbledore might think that giving the cloak owned by Harry to Harry is the best way for the cloak to end up being owned by Dumbledore.
ch14
Wait, is the message Harry got with his cloak from Dumbledore? (edit: he admits that in ch79). I thought Dumbledore refused to lie? And yet he’s letting the cloak escape his grasp while saying that.
(For a moment I thought he might be saying he wouldn’t let the chance escape his grasp, rather than the cloak itself, but that’s just silly, and there’s no particular reason why that would even be true, if the other isn’t.)
What makes you think that?
In ch71 he even refused to say “I solemnly swear I’m up to no good” for that reason, so that’s at least reason to think he claims to be a principled truth teller. And generally his behaviour seems consistent with that to me, like when he was teaching Harry obfuscation without lying, in ch18 when they were having their round of bargaining/blackmail over Snape’s behaviour, or his reaction after Harry pressed him on the matter of whether he killed Narcissa Malfoy.
Of course he could be willing to lie for sufficiently important reasons just like Harry (though Harry ended up that way under Quirrel’s influence), but I see no really pressing reason for that here, and if it comes out that the note is from him, Harry could call him on it.
It seems transparent to me that the whole thing with the cloak was a gambit to manipulate Harry. Harry’s trust in the note-sender’s warning, followed by Dumbledore’s noble and forgiving reaction, caused Harry to feel guilty for doubting Dumbledore, and to tend towards trusting him more and trusting people who told him to doubt Dumbledore less.
If Dumbledore was playing both sides (and thus lying his head off), he achieved his real objective (to make Harry trust him more) very elegantly.
Of course, I understand that part. It’s not really the point. My point is that at all other times he seems to do his manipulations by misleading without lying.
Another example: the note about the escape-out-of-Hogwarts portkey, which Dumbledore later admitted to have written (and now that I checked, he admitted to writing both). In it, he misleadingly suggests the portkey leads to the Salem’s Witches’ institute without actually saying so. (Quirrel picked up on that for Harry).
Having a reputation of not lying is valuable.
Yes, yes it is. And you keep one by not risking it when you don’t have to.
Dumbledore clearly is not above telling the truth with manipulative intent. I think it’s quite easy to make the case that the note was true to the word, that the portkey would eventually lead Harry to Salem. Same with the cloak message: Dumbledore has not let go of the chance to possess the Cloak. Harry remains firmly under Dumbledore’s ward, thus holding on to that chance.
Then the two notes contradict, as letting Harry go to Salem, and beyond Dumbledore’s reach, would entail giving up on the Cloak.
For the two notes to contradict:
Harry would have to be out of Dumbledore’s reach at Salem (unlikely, given the extent of Dumbledore’s influence and meddling).
Dumbledore would have to let Harry keep the cloak before sending him to Salem. (fairly likely, but not guaranteed).
Dumbledore would have to be alive (also fairly likely, although if this follows canon then Dumbledore will die at some point)
There’s enough wiggle room to where I think someone like Dumbledore would feel comfortable saying it’s not a lie.
The second note states that magical America can protect Harry from Dumbledore. If Harry isn’t outside Dumbledore’s reach at Salem, and Dumbledore knows this when writing the note, then he is lying.
Technically speaking, Dumbledore can’t take the Cloak from Harry by force, since its powers apparently rely on formal and deliberate transfer of ownership. I suppose he could resort to blackmail, but doing that before sending Harry to America would almost certainly result in complete breaking of ties (at least friendly ties).
Given everything else that happens (with Hermione’s death as the strongest example), I think we can be fairly certain that this story will not follow canon plot developments except by coincidence.
What’s arguably more valuable is having a reputation of not misleading people, either.
What does the “so” at the start of the last sentence mean, if it does not connect the tearing of the card to the preceding statements about the Salem Witches’ Institute?
It’s possible that going to the house in London is simply a step on the way to the Salem Witches’ Institute.
I was under the impression that in canon, at least, the Deathly Hallows are sensitive to ‘ownership,’ and so Dumbledore might think that giving the cloak owned by Harry to Harry is the best way for the cloak to end up being owned by Dumbledore.