Could you explain? If I were presented with a data sheet full of numbers, and told “these are the point coordinates of the fundamental building blocks of three entities. Please tell me what these entities are, and if applicable, what they are about” I would be unable to do so. Would you?
Given a computer that can handle the representation and convert it into form acceptable by the interface of your mind, this data can be converted into a high-level description. The data determines its high-level properties, even if you are unable to extract them, just like a given number determines which prime factors it has, even if you are unable to factor it.
I happen to agree. However, the claim of reductionism is that what you’ve described is the case for ALL entities. I’m trying to figure out why this claim is logically necessary, and any disagreement is a confusion.
The claim is about the absence of high-level concepts in the territory. These appear only the mind, as computational abstractions in processing low-level data. The logical incoherence comes from the disagreement between the definition of high-level concepts as classes of states of the territory, which their role in the mind’s algorithm entails, and assumption that the very same concepts obey laws of physics. It’s virtually impossible for the convenience of computational abstraction to correspond exactly to the reality of physical laws, and even more impossible for this correspondence to persist. High-level concepts ever change in the minds according to chance and choice, while fundamental laws are a given, not subservient to telepathic teleological necessity.
Edit: changed “classes of low-level concepts” to “classes of states of the territory”.
That was a bit confusing, and I have to go now, so I’ll try and give a more thorough response later. I’ll just say right now that I don’t think it’s as easy as you claim to differentiate between “higher-level” and “lower-level” entities/concepts/laws, or rather, to decide whether an entity is actually a fundamental thing with laws, or whether its just a concept. You appeal to changeability, but this seems like unsteady ground.
EDIT: Here’s a better way of formulating my objection: tell me the obvious, a priori logically necessary criteria for a person to distinguish between “entities within the territory” and “high-level concepts.” If you can’t give any, then this is a big problem: you don’t know that the higher level entities aren’t within the territory. They could be within the territory, or they could be “computational abstractions.” Either position is logically tenable, so it makes no sense to say that this is where the logical incoherence comes in.
Yes, and it does.
Could you explain? If I were presented with a data sheet full of numbers, and told “these are the point coordinates of the fundamental building blocks of three entities. Please tell me what these entities are, and if applicable, what they are about” I would be unable to do so. Would you?
Given a computer that can handle the representation and convert it into form acceptable by the interface of your mind, this data can be converted into a high-level description. The data determines its high-level properties, even if you are unable to extract them, just like a given number determines which prime factors it has, even if you are unable to factor it.
I happen to agree. However, the claim of reductionism is that what you’ve described is the case for ALL entities. I’m trying to figure out why this claim is logically necessary, and any disagreement is a confusion.
The claim is about the absence of high-level concepts in the territory. These appear only the mind, as computational abstractions in processing low-level data. The logical incoherence comes from the disagreement between the definition of high-level concepts as classes of states of the territory, which their role in the mind’s algorithm entails, and assumption that the very same concepts obey laws of physics. It’s virtually impossible for the convenience of computational abstraction to correspond exactly to the reality of physical laws, and even more impossible for this correspondence to persist. High-level concepts ever change in the minds according to chance and choice, while fundamental laws are a given, not subservient to telepathic teleological necessity.
Edit: changed “classes of low-level concepts” to “classes of states of the territory”.
That was a bit confusing, and I have to go now, so I’ll try and give a more thorough response later. I’ll just say right now that I don’t think it’s as easy as you claim to differentiate between “higher-level” and “lower-level” entities/concepts/laws, or rather, to decide whether an entity is actually a fundamental thing with laws, or whether its just a concept. You appeal to changeability, but this seems like unsteady ground.
EDIT: Here’s a better way of formulating my objection: tell me the obvious, a priori logically necessary criteria for a person to distinguish between “entities within the territory” and “high-level concepts.” If you can’t give any, then this is a big problem: you don’t know that the higher level entities aren’t within the territory. They could be within the territory, or they could be “computational abstractions.” Either position is logically tenable, so it makes no sense to say that this is where the logical incoherence comes in.