Cryonics Status—More likely to be signed up or to be considering it, less likely to be not planning to or to not have thought about it
So long-time participants were less likely to believe that cryonics would work for them but more likely to sign up for it? Interesting. This could be driven by any of: fluke, greater rationality, greater age&income, less akrasia, more willingness to take long-shot bets based on shutting up and multiplying.
I looked into this a little more, and it looks like those who are strongly tied to the LW community are less likely to give high answers to p(cryonics) (p>50%), but not any more or less likely to give low answers (p<10%). That reduction in high answers could be a sign of greater rationality—less affect heuristic driven irrational exuberance about the prospects for cryonics—or just more knowledge about the topic. But I’m surprised that there’s no change in the frequency of low answers.
There is a similar pattern in the relationship between cryonics status and p(cryonics). Those who are signed up for cryonics don’t give a higher p(cryonics) on average than those who are not signed up, but they are less likely to give a probability under 10%. The group with the highest average p(cryonics) is those who aren’t signed up but are considering it, and that’s the group that’s most likely to give a probability over 50%.
Here are the results for p(cryonics) broken down by cryonics status, showing what percent of each group gave p(cryonics)<.1, what percent gave p(cryonics)>.5, and what the average p(cryonics) is for each group. (I’m expressing p(cryonics) here as probabilities from 0-1 because I think it’s easier to follow that way, since I’m giving the percent of people in each group.)
Never thought about it / don’t understand (n=26): 58% give p<.1, 8% give p>.5, mean p=.17 No, and not planning to (n=289): 60% give p<.1, 6% give p>.5, mean p=.14 No, but considering it (n=444): 38% give p < .1, 18% give p>.5, mean p=.27 Yes—signed up or just finishing up paperwork (n=36): 39% give p<.1, 8% give p>.5, mean p=.21 Overall: 47% give p<.1, 13% give p>.5, mean p=.22
The existential risk questions are a confounding factor here—if you think p(cryonics works) 80%, but p(xrisk ends civilization) 50%, that pulls down your p(successful revival) considerably.
I wondered about that, but p(cryonics) and p(xrisk) are actually uncorrelated, and the pattern of results for p(cryonics) remains the same when controlling statistically for p(xrisk).
I think the main reason for this is that these persons have simply spent more time thinking about cyronics compared to other people. By spending time on this forum they have had a good chance of running into a discussion which has inspired them to read about it and sign up. Or perhaps people who are interested in cyronics are also interested in other topics LW has to offer, and hence stay in this place. In either case, it follows that they are probably also more knowledgeable about cyronics and hence understand what cyrotechnology can realistically offer currently or in the near future.
In addition, these long-time guys might be more open to things such as cyronics in the ethical way.
I think the main reason for this is that these persons have simply spent more time thinking about cyronics compared to other people.
I don’t think this is obvious at all. If you had asked me before in advance which of the following 4 possible sign-pairs would be true with increasing time spent thinking about cryonics:
less credence, less sign-ups
less credence, more sign-ups
more credence, more sign-ups
more credence, less sign-ups
I would have said ‘obviously #3, since everyone starts from “that won’t ever work” and move up from there, and then one is that much more likely to sign up’
The actual outcome, #2, would be the one I would expect least. (Hence, I am strongly suspicious of anyone claiming to expect or predict it as suffering from hindsight bias.)
It is noted above that those with strong community attachment think that there is more risk of catastrophe. If human civilization collapses or is destroyed, then cryonics patients and facilities will also be destroyed.
I would expect the result to be a more accurate estimation of the success, combined with more sign-ups . 2 is an example of this if, in fact, the more accurate assessment is lower than the assessment of someone with a different level of information.
I don’t it’s true that everyone starts from “that won’t ever work”—we know some people think it might work, and we may be inclined to some wishful thinking or susceptability to hype to inflate our likelihood above the conclusion we’d reach if we invest the time to consider the issue in more depth, It’s also worth noting that we’re not comparing the general public to those who’ve seriously considered signing up, but the lesswrong population, who are probably a lot more exposed to the idea of cryonics.
I’d agree that it’s not what I would have predicted in advance (having no more expectation for the likelihood assigned to go up as down with more research), but it would be predictable for someone proceeding from the premise that the lesswrong community overestimates the likelihood of cryonics success compared to those who have done more research.
Yeah, I think you have a point. However, maybe the following explanation would be better:
Currently cyronics aren’t likely to work. People who sign up into cyronics do research on the subject before or after singing up, and hence become aware that cyronics aren’t likely to work.
So long-time participants were less likely to believe that cryonics would work for them but more likely to sign up for it? Interesting. This could be driven by any of: fluke, greater rationality, greater age&income, less akrasia, more willingness to take long-shot bets based on shutting up and multiplying.
I looked into this a little more, and it looks like those who are strongly tied to the LW community are less likely to give high answers to p(cryonics) (p>50%), but not any more or less likely to give low answers (p<10%). That reduction in high answers could be a sign of greater rationality—less affect heuristic driven irrational exuberance about the prospects for cryonics—or just more knowledge about the topic. But I’m surprised that there’s no change in the frequency of low answers.
There is a similar pattern in the relationship between cryonics status and p(cryonics). Those who are signed up for cryonics don’t give a higher p(cryonics) on average than those who are not signed up, but they are less likely to give a probability under 10%. The group with the highest average p(cryonics) is those who aren’t signed up but are considering it, and that’s the group that’s most likely to give a probability over 50%.
Here are the results for p(cryonics) broken down by cryonics status, showing what percent of each group gave p(cryonics)<.1, what percent gave p(cryonics)>.5, and what the average p(cryonics) is for each group. (I’m expressing p(cryonics) here as probabilities from 0-1 because I think it’s easier to follow that way, since I’m giving the percent of people in each group.)
Never thought about it / don’t understand (n=26): 58% give p<.1, 8% give p>.5, mean p=.17
No, and not planning to (n=289): 60% give p<.1, 6% give p>.5, mean p=.14
No, but considering it (n=444): 38% give p < .1, 18% give p>.5, mean p=.27
Yes—signed up or just finishing up paperwork (n=36): 39% give p<.1, 8% give p>.5, mean p=.21
Overall: 47% give p<.1, 13% give p>.5, mean p=.22
The existential risk questions are a confounding factor here—if you think p(cryonics works) 80%, but p(xrisk ends civilization) 50%, that pulls down your p(successful revival) considerably.
I wondered about that, but p(cryonics) and p(xrisk) are actually uncorrelated, and the pattern of results for p(cryonics) remains the same when controlling statistically for p(xrisk).
I think the main reason for this is that these persons have simply spent more time thinking about cyronics compared to other people. By spending time on this forum they have had a good chance of running into a discussion which has inspired them to read about it and sign up. Or perhaps people who are interested in cyronics are also interested in other topics LW has to offer, and hence stay in this place. In either case, it follows that they are probably also more knowledgeable about cyronics and hence understand what cyrotechnology can realistically offer currently or in the near future. In addition, these long-time guys might be more open to things such as cyronics in the ethical way.
I don’t think this is obvious at all. If you had asked me before in advance which of the following 4 possible sign-pairs would be true with increasing time spent thinking about cryonics:
less credence, less sign-ups
less credence, more sign-ups
more credence, more sign-ups
more credence, less sign-ups
I would have said ‘obviously #3, since everyone starts from “that won’t ever work” and move up from there, and then one is that much more likely to sign up’
The actual outcome, #2, would be the one I would expect least. (Hence, I am strongly suspicious of anyone claiming to expect or predict it as suffering from hindsight bias.)
It is noted above that those with strong community attachment think that there is more risk of catastrophe. If human civilization collapses or is destroyed, then cryonics patients and facilities will also be destroyed.
I would expect the result to be a more accurate estimation of the success, combined with more sign-ups . 2 is an example of this if, in fact, the more accurate assessment is lower than the assessment of someone with a different level of information.
I don’t it’s true that everyone starts from “that won’t ever work”—we know some people think it might work, and we may be inclined to some wishful thinking or susceptability to hype to inflate our likelihood above the conclusion we’d reach if we invest the time to consider the issue in more depth, It’s also worth noting that we’re not comparing the general public to those who’ve seriously considered signing up, but the lesswrong population, who are probably a lot more exposed to the idea of cryonics.
I’d agree that it’s not what I would have predicted in advance (having no more expectation for the likelihood assigned to go up as down with more research), but it would be predictable for someone proceeding from the premise that the lesswrong community overestimates the likelihood of cryonics success compared to those who have done more research.
Yeah, I think you have a point. However, maybe the following explanation would be better: Currently cyronics aren’t likely to work. People who sign up into cyronics do research on the subject before or after singing up, and hence become aware that cyronics aren’t likely to work.