There are probably much more important concerns when choosing a country than the ones you have listed. You haven’t even discussed immigration policies. Some of the concerns you have listed (such as intervening in a crisis, burglars) are unlikely to even effect you and seem entirely ideological.
I suggest you rethink this and come up with a list of requirements based on practical concerns rather than ideology.
I’m trying to actually live by my ideology here- in order to do that, I have to think in far mode. As has been established on LessWrong already, there’s no reason to believe that happiness should be the only thing considered as a priority.
What values are you fulfilling with these moving criteria?
Ideology, as a rule, is a mess of signaling and identity. It seems to consist of beliefs that are held almost entirely because of coincidence and cognitive quirks. So they seem like a very bad set of beliefs to base life altering decisions on.
Now, your terminal values are your terminal values, but either you have a very unique set of terminal values or the way in which these moving criteria fulfills those values is pretty convoluted. Maybe if you explained what exactly your terminal values are your stated criteria would seem less crazy to us?
2- Pride (I want to actually be immune to ‘The Man’ as abstraction to the greatest possible extent- to be able to avoid opression and control by the elites of society as much as possible. Come to think of it, both Freedom and Property come down to this)
3- Social status (Practical- I want a high one relative to those I regularly interact with)
4- Social status (Theoretical- I want as high a social status in society as I can realistically get)
5- Evolution (I want to be evolutionary sucessful, although this is by comparison minor)
I figure that by picking and choosing low-status areas and people I can maximise my practical social status, my theoretical social status by working effectively, my happiness by the usual means, and my desire for property and freedom by choosing effectively where to live. By sperm donation once I’ve achieved high status, I can achieve evolutionary sucess beyond the wildest dreams of what my distant ancestors could hope for.
Good edit. My advice regarding #2 is to make lots of money. This is far more important than living somewhere with a strong property rights regime (as long as they have the usual property rights of Western countries). This may not be true in all countries (my experience is mostly with the US) but being wealthy lets you buy the best lawyers and the most influence. It gives you the means to leave the country and insulates you against threats to your property. And if you’re wealthy you don’t have to risk your life to kill burglars… you can just buy homeowners insurance or replace what you lose. Make a call to the mayor whose campaign you donated to and watch the police go to work hunting down you home invader. My guess is America lets you buy this protection more than most other places (at least, the other places worth living, you might get more bang for your buck living someplace dreadful)- I think your fears about freedom in the US are probably more serious than the evidence justifies. In any case, I’m pretty sure Texas is still pretty cool with shooting home invaders and Austin is a great city.
I think you should spend more time thinking about how your happiness will be influenced by where you live.
I figure that by picking and choosing low-status areas and people I can maximise my practical social status,
I’m not sure this isn’t the exact opposite of what you should do.
By sperm donation once I’ve achieved high status, I can achieve evolutionary sucess beyond the wildest dreams of what my distant ancestors could hope for.
A- That could be a barely acceptable way around it- what countries allow for ‘buying’ such protection for the rich?
B- It’s more that I can as a matter of principle- that I can defend my own property, rather than having to depend on the government.
C- By ‘practical social status’ I mean ‘social status relative to the people I normally have to deal with’. ‘Big fish in a small pond’ and all that.
D- That’s why I need high social status, or else sperm donation is useful. If the sperm are advertised as being from a high-status source, the chances of use increase. Sufficently high status, and I hit metaphorical jackpot.
People on this site love the idea of spreading our awesome genes through sperm/egg donation, but I wonder how many have tried. I’m sure LWers are above average in brains, but what gene banks wants are largely beauty, height, and flawless family history. As a population I expect we’re average or below average in those things.
So if you’re tall, handsome, and have no family history of any diseases, congratulations.
That’s why I’d have to achieve something high status first- say, becoming a partner in a law firm. That way, I’ll at least maximise my chances of evolutionary sucess (relative to any other avaliable options, given that it’s in the scheme of things minor).
That’s why I’d have to achieve something high status first- say, becoming a partner in a law firm.
I recommend becoming the Chief Medical Officer at the sperm/egg storage facility. Or, you know, the janitor. Darwin doesn’t award points for playing fair!
Yes, they are partially ideological- but also partially based on actual preferences. I like to snoop around the ‘dirty laundry’ of various governments (especially my own) when I can, I like to appear right wing (hence I can say to my friends I moved on principle), and I place a very high utility on not having the trauma of going to jail (judging from past experience there’s a risk I’d kill a burgular), plus a degree of pride in actually having something resembling actual property rights.
EDIT: In addition, in old age I want to live in something as close as possible to a proper democracy that actually follows the ideals democracy is supposed to. Lack of internet censorship makes for de facto freedom of speech, property rights are self-explanatory (western society says people own their properties, but have a lot of implicit ‘but’ clauses), and laws forcing me to intervene in a crisis get rid of my liberty. These are trends that are likely to get worse, not better, over time- the trend in the U.S is towards Guantanamo Bay and increased presidential power, Australia has internet censorship and could go further, and Europe has ‘intervene in a crisis’ laws (the UK as far as I know takes the lead with public security cameras).
EDIT TWO: I agree that I should rule out countries I can’t get into even with dogged persistence, being Western middle class, and advice from hiring a lawyer. Other than that, I don’t see how immigration comes into it.
These are not, in fact, important factors in deciding in which country to live.
I like to appear right wing (hence I can say to my friends I moved on principle)
Once moved out of the country, your current friends will have a very small impact on your life. Whatever utility you gain from feeling great while preparing for your move will be dwarfed by the disutility of having optimized incorrectly after you have moved.
I place a very high utility on not having the trauma of going to jail (judging from past experience there’s a risk I’d kill a burgular)
You are better served by living in a country with a low crime rate, or living in a country with a cheap cost of living so you can live in the best neighborhoods. What are the odds you’ll actually be broken into, while you’re home, while you’re able to get to your gun, and that you’ll feel better having killed another person? That’s a lot of conditional probabilities, for something that would give you negative utility anyways. Try to imagine how you’ll feel one month or one year afterwards knowing you’ve ended a life instead of just having bought renter’s insurance and getting new stuff anyways (assuming you bought a replacement versus ACV policy).
Plus a degree of pride in actually having something resembling actual property rights.
There’s points of pride you don’t know about until you live elsewhere. One is having 10x the internet speed than another country. Another is not having to worry about medical care, having better medical care, and spending 1⁄2 as much per capita on that care. Yet another is having protections against corporations some other countries don’t have.
It’s best to narrow your search to things that will effect your life on a real day-to-day basis, then sort competitors from there. Climate, culture, population density, and job market are the most important factors.
1- You don’t know my friends. Many of them would be likely to call me a significant amount of the time anyway, and I don’t want to have to ‘cut the cord’ with them.
2- I admit I’m not actually normal in this, but I tend to imagine how I’d feel knowing that I was beaten by a burgular who I couldn’t stop form taking all my stuff as worse. At least I’d have my pride if I killed them.
3- After a certain point, internet speed as a matter of dimishing marginal returns. I also care about pride in what I have, not pride in what I am given by the government. If I have the right to defend my property, that’s at least closer to something that’s inherent to me rather than the government than protection aganist corporations.
If/when you get to old age, you can move again. Your priorities WILL shift A LOT over the course of a few decades. E.g. freezing weather is an annoyance when you’re young, but a mortal handicap when you’re old.
There are probably much more important concerns when choosing a country than the ones you have listed. You haven’t even discussed immigration policies. Some of the concerns you have listed (such as intervening in a crisis, burglars) are unlikely to even effect you and seem entirely ideological.
I suggest you rethink this and come up with a list of requirements based on practical concerns rather than ideology.
To put this another way, I think Carinthium is thinking too much in Far Mode for a decision like this.
I’m trying to actually live by my ideology here- in order to do that, I have to think in far mode. As has been established on LessWrong already, there’s no reason to believe that happiness should be the only thing considered as a priority.
What values are you fulfilling with these moving criteria?
Ideology, as a rule, is a mess of signaling and identity. It seems to consist of beliefs that are held almost entirely because of coincidence and cognitive quirks. So they seem like a very bad set of beliefs to base life altering decisions on.
Now, your terminal values are your terminal values, but either you have a very unique set of terminal values or the way in which these moving criteria fulfills those values is pretty convoluted. Maybe if you explained what exactly your terminal values are your stated criteria would seem less crazy to us?
My terminal values include:
1- Happiness
EDIT:
2- Pride (I want to actually be immune to ‘The Man’ as abstraction to the greatest possible extent- to be able to avoid opression and control by the elites of society as much as possible. Come to think of it, both Freedom and Property come down to this)
3- Social status (Practical- I want a high one relative to those I regularly interact with)
4- Social status (Theoretical- I want as high a social status in society as I can realistically get)
5- Evolution (I want to be evolutionary sucessful, although this is by comparison minor)
I figure that by picking and choosing low-status areas and people I can maximise my practical social status, my theoretical social status by working effectively, my happiness by the usual means, and my desire for property and freedom by choosing effectively where to live. By sperm donation once I’ve achieved high status, I can achieve evolutionary sucess beyond the wildest dreams of what my distant ancestors could hope for.
Good edit. My advice regarding #2 is to make lots of money. This is far more important than living somewhere with a strong property rights regime (as long as they have the usual property rights of Western countries). This may not be true in all countries (my experience is mostly with the US) but being wealthy lets you buy the best lawyers and the most influence. It gives you the means to leave the country and insulates you against threats to your property. And if you’re wealthy you don’t have to risk your life to kill burglars… you can just buy homeowners insurance or replace what you lose. Make a call to the mayor whose campaign you donated to and watch the police go to work hunting down you home invader. My guess is America lets you buy this protection more than most other places (at least, the other places worth living, you might get more bang for your buck living someplace dreadful)- I think your fears about freedom in the US are probably more serious than the evidence justifies. In any case, I’m pretty sure Texas is still pretty cool with shooting home invaders and Austin is a great city.
I think you should spend more time thinking about how your happiness will be influenced by where you live.
I’m not sure this isn’t the exact opposite of what you should do.
Is this true? How often is a given sample used?
A- That could be a barely acceptable way around it- what countries allow for ‘buying’ such protection for the rich? B- It’s more that I can as a matter of principle- that I can defend my own property, rather than having to depend on the government. C- By ‘practical social status’ I mean ‘social status relative to the people I normally have to deal with’. ‘Big fish in a small pond’ and all that. D- That’s why I need high social status, or else sperm donation is useful. If the sperm are advertised as being from a high-status source, the chances of use increase. Sufficently high status, and I hit metaphorical jackpot.
That was answered:
I meant other than the United States- Texas looks like a good option at this point, but I wanted to see if there were any others.
I think money can buy protection almost anywhere, e.g. donations to the right people.
People on this site love the idea of spreading our awesome genes through sperm/egg donation, but I wonder how many have tried. I’m sure LWers are above average in brains, but what gene banks wants are largely beauty, height, and flawless family history. As a population I expect we’re average or below average in those things.
So if you’re tall, handsome, and have no family history of any diseases, congratulations.
That’s why I’d have to achieve something high status first- say, becoming a partner in a law firm. That way, I’ll at least maximise my chances of evolutionary sucess (relative to any other avaliable options, given that it’s in the scheme of things minor).
I recommend becoming the Chief Medical Officer at the sperm/egg storage facility. Or, you know, the janitor. Darwin doesn’t award points for playing fair!
As things stand (much to Inspector Darwin’s horror), you don’t need even to be the janitor—the donors make out like cuckolds. One known donor has 150 offspring: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/06/health/06donor.html
Evolutionary sucess is by comparison a minor priority for me- if it were my first priority, that would indeed be my best course of action.
Simplest method: be one.
Yes, they are partially ideological- but also partially based on actual preferences. I like to snoop around the ‘dirty laundry’ of various governments (especially my own) when I can, I like to appear right wing (hence I can say to my friends I moved on principle), and I place a very high utility on not having the trauma of going to jail (judging from past experience there’s a risk I’d kill a burgular), plus a degree of pride in actually having something resembling actual property rights.
EDIT: In addition, in old age I want to live in something as close as possible to a proper democracy that actually follows the ideals democracy is supposed to. Lack of internet censorship makes for de facto freedom of speech, property rights are self-explanatory (western society says people own their properties, but have a lot of implicit ‘but’ clauses), and laws forcing me to intervene in a crisis get rid of my liberty. These are trends that are likely to get worse, not better, over time- the trend in the U.S is towards Guantanamo Bay and increased presidential power, Australia has internet censorship and could go further, and Europe has ‘intervene in a crisis’ laws (the UK as far as I know takes the lead with public security cameras). EDIT TWO: I agree that I should rule out countries I can’t get into even with dogged persistence, being Western middle class, and advice from hiring a lawyer. Other than that, I don’t see how immigration comes into it.
These are not, in fact, important factors in deciding in which country to live.
Once moved out of the country, your current friends will have a very small impact on your life. Whatever utility you gain from feeling great while preparing for your move will be dwarfed by the disutility of having optimized incorrectly after you have moved.
You are better served by living in a country with a low crime rate, or living in a country with a cheap cost of living so you can live in the best neighborhoods. What are the odds you’ll actually be broken into, while you’re home, while you’re able to get to your gun, and that you’ll feel better having killed another person? That’s a lot of conditional probabilities, for something that would give you negative utility anyways. Try to imagine how you’ll feel one month or one year afterwards knowing you’ve ended a life instead of just having bought renter’s insurance and getting new stuff anyways (assuming you bought a replacement versus ACV policy).
There’s points of pride you don’t know about until you live elsewhere. One is having 10x the internet speed than another country. Another is not having to worry about medical care, having better medical care, and spending 1⁄2 as much per capita on that care. Yet another is having protections against corporations some other countries don’t have.
It’s best to narrow your search to things that will effect your life on a real day-to-day basis, then sort competitors from there. Climate, culture, population density, and job market are the most important factors.
1- You don’t know my friends. Many of them would be likely to call me a significant amount of the time anyway, and I don’t want to have to ‘cut the cord’ with them. 2- I admit I’m not actually normal in this, but I tend to imagine how I’d feel knowing that I was beaten by a burgular who I couldn’t stop form taking all my stuff as worse. At least I’d have my pride if I killed them. 3- After a certain point, internet speed as a matter of dimishing marginal returns. I also care about pride in what I have, not pride in what I am given by the government. If I have the right to defend my property, that’s at least closer to something that’s inherent to me rather than the government than protection aganist corporations.
If/when you get to old age, you can move again. Your priorities WILL shift A LOT over the course of a few decades. E.g. freezing weather is an annoyance when you’re young, but a mortal handicap when you’re old.
You say that as if Australia has far more censorship than the US, which I don’t believe is true.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Australia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_the_United_States
(What are you trying to say?)