I’ve said before that I think I care about the truth more than other people because a parent lied to me- but I don’t think the Santa lie was the traumatizing one.
I slowly gathered more evidence there was no Santa year by year. Once my Aunt thanked my mother for something that had a “From Santa” label. We had a tradition of calling Santa to tell him what we wanted for Christmas, Santa being my mother’s older brother the actor. I recall my belief diminishing when I realized none of my classmates were talking to Santa on the phone. And then there was the fact that my brother and I began to hunt and find the hidden presents- presents we assumed would be put under the tree as “From Mom” but a few ended up coming from Santa Claus and that pretty much gave it away.
The Tooth Fairy was the first myth I realized was false- figuring this out was easy. Like the fifth tooth I lost I didn’t tell anyone and put it under my pillow. I woke up the next day and it was still there. Then I told my parents and the next night, found money. I then pretended I still believed in the Tooth Fairy until the rest of my teeth came out.
Maybe there is a rationalist case for these lies. There aren’t many other occasions for kids to find important things out about the world on their own. They mostly learn by being talked at “there are atoms” “the earth rotates around the sun” etc. Outside of Santa Claus when does a seven-year-old get to weigh evidence and challenge authority. Maybe it should be like a rationalist right of passage. The day your kid discovers Santa Claus isn’t real you take him out for dinner with family and friends, explain the lesson and give him a badge or a bicycle or something. Welcome him to the next step on the path to adulthood.
I believe there was an idea here for a rationalist school that teaches the process of discovery by not teaching children facts about the world but by giving them the tools to learn those facts on their own. I can’t remember if that idea originated in my head or if I read it here first and then told others about it. Maybe Santa Claus should be something like that.
The day your kid discovers Santa Claus isn’t real you take him out for dinner with family and friends, explain the lesson and give him a badge or a bicycle or something. Welcome him to the next step on the path to adulthood.
That sounds like something I’d want to do for my kids (provided I have any,) but what if instead of discovering it through their own reasoning or investigative abilities, they hear it from someone else, and come begging you to reassure them that it’s not true?
I think if they wanted reassurance I’d tell them to figure it out for themselves, and possibly use it to teach them the concept behind the Litany of Tarski. How much that would work would depend on how old they are. After they realized it wasn’t true and accepted that, I’d take them out to dinner.
The Tooth Fairy was the first myth I realized was false- figuring this out was easy. Like the fifth tooth I lost I didn’t tell anyone and put it under my pillow. I woke up the next day and it was still there. Then I told my parents and the next night, found money. I then pretended I still believe in the Tooth Fairy until the rest of my teeth came out.
I’m impressed and envious- that attitude, rather than any amount of memorized facts, is the sign of a scientific prodigy.
I then pretended I still believe in the Tooth Fairy until the rest of my teeth came out.
is how you get tenure.
But in humility I think my teeth started coming out a fair bit later than most children’s do. And I don’t know how conscious I was of what I was doing. I’m not sure the thought process was as complicated as “I know, I’ll keep it a secret from my parents, who I suspect of being the tooth fairy, and if there is no money I’ll see what happens if I do tell them.” It may just have been hard to get excited about announcing I lost another tooth after already having done it 4 times before.
I believe there was an idea here for a rationalist school that teaches the process of discovery by not teaching children facts about the world but by giving them the tools to learn those facts on their own. I can’t remember if that idea originated in my head or if I read it here first and then told others about it.
I’ve had similar thoughts (I have two small children, so I’m super interested in ideas about education), but on reflection, I think this would be a bad idea. It took the greatest minds of prior generations entire lifetimes to come up with the breakthroughs in science and mathematics that current work is building upon. It would be unrealistic and counterproductive to expect a child to independently replicate the invention of the zero, Mendelian inheritance, Newtonian physics, etc. Even if they were given a lot of hints.
Instead, what I’d like to do with my kids is to put the advancement of human knowledge firmly into its historical and cultural context. So instead of “this is geometry, now memorize the Pythagorean theorem,” we would study the architecture and building methods of the ancient Greeks, learn about the problems that Pythagoras had to solve, learn about the alternate methods and theories that existed at the time, learn about his advancements and insight right along with his crazy numerology and religion, and then learn about how subsequent mathematicians sorted out his important discoveries from his wacky personal beliefs. So it would be not just “this is geometry,” but “this is geometry, this is why and how geometry was developed, these are some false ideas that were initially part of geometry, this is how the truth was winnowed out, and these are the problems that have yet to be solved.” The idea being to teach the process of discovery along with the discoveries themselves.
That sounds like a good educational process, but once they have some grounding in that, I think it would be good to move on to not telling them the right answers, but presenting them with a number of propositions, and telling them
“These are the possibilities that were raised at the time. Can you work out which is actually correct, and how they figured it out?”
I’ve said before that I think I care about the truth more than other people because a parent lied to me- but I don’t think the Santa lie was the traumatizing one.
I slowly gathered more evidence there was no Santa year by year. Once my Aunt thanked my mother for something that had a “From Santa” label. We had a tradition of calling Santa to tell him what we wanted for Christmas, Santa being my mother’s older brother the actor. I recall my belief diminishing when I realized none of my classmates were talking to Santa on the phone. And then there was the fact that my brother and I began to hunt and find the hidden presents- presents we assumed would be put under the tree as “From Mom” but a few ended up coming from Santa Claus and that pretty much gave it away.
The Tooth Fairy was the first myth I realized was false- figuring this out was easy. Like the fifth tooth I lost I didn’t tell anyone and put it under my pillow. I woke up the next day and it was still there. Then I told my parents and the next night, found money. I then pretended I still believed in the Tooth Fairy until the rest of my teeth came out.
Maybe there is a rationalist case for these lies. There aren’t many other occasions for kids to find important things out about the world on their own. They mostly learn by being talked at “there are atoms” “the earth rotates around the sun” etc. Outside of Santa Claus when does a seven-year-old get to weigh evidence and challenge authority. Maybe it should be like a rationalist right of passage. The day your kid discovers Santa Claus isn’t real you take him out for dinner with family and friends, explain the lesson and give him a badge or a bicycle or something. Welcome him to the next step on the path to adulthood.
I believe there was an idea here for a rationalist school that teaches the process of discovery by not teaching children facts about the world but by giving them the tools to learn those facts on their own. I can’t remember if that idea originated in my head or if I read it here first and then told others about it. Maybe Santa Claus should be something like that.
That sounds like something I’d want to do for my kids (provided I have any,) but what if instead of discovering it through their own reasoning or investigative abilities, they hear it from someone else, and come begging you to reassure them that it’s not true?
I think if they wanted reassurance I’d tell them to figure it out for themselves, and possibly use it to teach them the concept behind the Litany of Tarski. How much that would work would depend on how old they are. After they realized it wasn’t true and accepted that, I’d take them out to dinner.
I’m impressed and envious- that attitude, rather than any amount of memorized facts, is the sign of a scientific prodigy.
Unfortunately this attitude
is how you get tenure.
But in humility I think my teeth started coming out a fair bit later than most children’s do. And I don’t know how conscious I was of what I was doing. I’m not sure the thought process was as complicated as “I know, I’ll keep it a secret from my parents, who I suspect of being the tooth fairy, and if there is no money I’ll see what happens if I do tell them.” It may just have been hard to get excited about announcing I lost another tooth after already having done it 4 times before.
I’ve had similar thoughts (I have two small children, so I’m super interested in ideas about education), but on reflection, I think this would be a bad idea. It took the greatest minds of prior generations entire lifetimes to come up with the breakthroughs in science and mathematics that current work is building upon. It would be unrealistic and counterproductive to expect a child to independently replicate the invention of the zero, Mendelian inheritance, Newtonian physics, etc. Even if they were given a lot of hints.
Instead, what I’d like to do with my kids is to put the advancement of human knowledge firmly into its historical and cultural context. So instead of “this is geometry, now memorize the Pythagorean theorem,” we would study the architecture and building methods of the ancient Greeks, learn about the problems that Pythagoras had to solve, learn about the alternate methods and theories that existed at the time, learn about his advancements and insight right along with his crazy numerology and religion, and then learn about how subsequent mathematicians sorted out his important discoveries from his wacky personal beliefs. So it would be not just “this is geometry,” but “this is geometry, this is why and how geometry was developed, these are some false ideas that were initially part of geometry, this is how the truth was winnowed out, and these are the problems that have yet to be solved.” The idea being to teach the process of discovery along with the discoveries themselves.
That sounds like a good educational process, but once they have some grounding in that, I think it would be good to move on to not telling them the right answers, but presenting them with a number of propositions, and telling them
“These are the possibilities that were raised at the time. Can you work out which is actually correct, and how they figured it out?”