We already know that Draco’s patronus is a snake, and it is reasonable to assume that Quirrelmort’s patronus would be a snake as well (given that he’s a snake animagus).
That sounds reasonable, but unless everything we saw about Quirrel is lie, he is unable to cast animal Patronus, being cynical sociopathic rationalist with a homicidal tendencies.
There is some possibility that Quirrel have analyzed his conversation with Harry, words about “rejection of Death as a part of natural order” and picture of stars being able to keep Dementation away and re-discovered True Patronus (there is speculation about Quirrel being enemy of Death, so it at least plausible), but True Patronus couldn’t look like a snake.
PS: Your argument partly applies to the Patronus of Lucius being a snake, though.
I see no justification for that statement. Perhaps True Patronuses can’t take the form of an animal, but that says nothing about what they can look like.
Would a sentient snake wizard say a True Patronus can’t look like an ape?
Being a transhumanist, and being good at the kind of mental gymnastics that allowed him to do partial transfiguration, Harry might be able to change his Patronus into any form he likes if he tries hard enough. We know mental stuff can change Patronuses in canon: Tonks’ Patronus changed due to her feelings for Lupin, though she didn’t do it on purpose.
Huh, I was sure you are able to choose your Animagus form, but it appears I was mistaken.
Apparently you become the animal that suits you best.
Still, there is a potential for a creative Legilemency and False-Memory Charm casted on oneself in order to create an appropriate self-image. Assuming Bellatrix was an Animagus before meeting Voldemort, was her Animagus form changed when she was shattered into pieces and re-combined into someone else?
Also, what if I Memory-Charm myself to believe that common characteristics of spiders are intelligence and courage? Will my Animagus form change depending on the beliefs of native population (e.g. if you are very cunning, you will be snake in Britain, fox in Russia and mongoose in Asia)?
ETA: Can’t stop thinking about it. Created a topic on Reddit since I feel like Reddit is more suitable for a this discussion: LW is serious and I prefer it to stay this way.
I’m fairly sure it would be easier to change your regular Patronus form than become an Animagus multiple times, even if you could choose what to become. As most people haven’t learnt the True Patronus, they would be able to have animal Patroni.
Lucius is pretty darn likely to have a snake patronus, yes. However, there is one other character we know of with a snake patronus. Slytherin himself. It is highly likely to be Draco—the timing is about right for him to learn Hermione died, but hey..
However, Harry knows that Draco’s snake is specifically a Blue Krait, and has seen it before. The probability that Quirrell would end up with a Blue Krait by pure chance is low.
The reference in the text doesn’t state anything more than that it was a snake, not that it was a Blue Krait. We don’t even get to see Harry’s reaction, be it familiarity or perceiving it as novel.
The snake is described as “gleaming soft white” and “silver”, which fits with the description of a patronus. And as it doesn’t match the description of Quirrelmort’s animagus snake “bright green and intricately banded in white and blue”, it is clearly not Quirrelmort’s animagus form.
While I assign a much higher probability that we just saw Drako’s patronus, we can’t rule out the possibility that it was someone else’s patronus, including Quirrelmort, even though I see those odds as being exceptionally low.
Sorry, I thought you were implying that Harry might be deceived by Quirrell pretending to be Draco, not that you were making a comment on what we can predict about the next chapter.
Just because Harry saw the snake Patronus doesn’t mean he recognizes the species. He probably could recognize the same Patronus, but maybe not; Harry paid more attention to it than a regular snake, but if I saw a snake once, and then saw another snake three months later, I don’t think I’d be sure they were the same even if I did have reason to think they were.
True. Then again, Harry knew when he taught Draco that one of the uses of a Patronus is to carry unfakeable messages, for which you need to know exactly what the other person’s Patronus looks like. Also, it’s the snake on Lucius’s cane, which we know he paid attention to. If he recognised Draco’s snake as that snake, it would set it firmly enough in his mind that he might recognise it when he saw it again.
Quirrel is said to be unable to cast the Patronus, and the established explanations for how it works makes it likely that this is true. Anyway, Harry already talked to Quirrel; no need for a second encounter.
Even if Quirrel had somehow learned how to cast a Patronus (which seems unlikely), why would he need to use it to communicate with Harry now?
Perhaps Quirrel learned to cast a Patronus as a consequence of his discussion with Harry, in which case he may want to (1) say “thank you”, and (2) discuss new plans that now seem meaningful to him.
Even if that were the case, a Patronus delivers its message in the exact voice of the person who spoke to it, and as far as I know, that can’t be falsified. This means that not only will we find out if it’s Draco (almost certainly is), but we’ll also know if he’s in trouble or under duress (pretty likely; he’s Harry’s second best friend).
We already know that Draco’s patronus is a snake, and it is reasonable to assume that Quirrelmort’s patronus would be a snake as well (given that he’s a snake animagus).
That sounds reasonable, but unless everything we saw about Quirrel is lie, he is unable to cast animal Patronus, being cynical sociopathic rationalist with a homicidal tendencies.
There is some possibility that Quirrel have analyzed his conversation with Harry, words about “rejection of Death as a part of natural order” and picture of stars being able to keep Dementation away and re-discovered True Patronus (there is speculation about Quirrel being enemy of Death, so it at least plausible), but True Patronus couldn’t look like a snake.
PS: Your argument partly applies to the Patronus of Lucius being a snake, though.
I see no justification for that statement. Perhaps True Patronuses can’t take the form of an animal, but that says nothing about what they can look like.
Would a sentient snake wizard say a True Patronus can’t look like an ape?
Being a transhumanist, and being good at the kind of mental gymnastics that allowed him to do partial transfiguration, Harry might be able to change his Patronus into any form he likes if he tries hard enough. We know mental stuff can change Patronuses in canon: Tonks’ Patronus changed due to her feelings for Lupin, though she didn’t do it on purpose.
1) Research wandless magic
2) Become a cat Animagus
3) Cast a True Patronus Charm while in a cat form
4) Awesome, now you can impersonate Patronus of McGonnagal and no members of Order of Phoenix can trust each other anymore!
5) Ask an Auror friend to destroy your Animagus form.
6) Become a spider Animagus
7) ???
8) Terrify people!
For this to work a wizard would need to be able to choose what Animagus form to take.
Huh, I was sure you are able to choose your Animagus form, but it appears I was mistaken.
Apparently you become the animal that suits you best.
Still, there is a potential for a creative Legilemency and False-Memory Charm casted on oneself in order to create an appropriate self-image. Assuming Bellatrix was an Animagus before meeting Voldemort, was her Animagus form changed when she was shattered into pieces and re-combined into someone else?
Also, what if I Memory-Charm myself to believe that common characteristics of spiders are intelligence and courage? Will my Animagus form change depending on the beliefs of native population (e.g. if you are very cunning, you will be snake in Britain, fox in Russia and mongoose in Asia)?
ETA: Can’t stop thinking about it. Created a topic on Reddit since I feel like Reddit is more suitable for a this discussion: LW is serious and I prefer it to stay this way.
I’m fairly sure it would be easier to change your regular Patronus form than become an Animagus multiple times, even if you could choose what to become. As most people haven’t learnt the True Patronus, they would be able to have animal Patroni.
Lucius is pretty darn likely to have a snake patronus, yes. However, there is one other character we know of with a snake patronus. Slytherin himself. It is highly likely to be Draco—the timing is about right for him to learn Hermione died, but hey..
Probably the only two things the True Patronus can look like are humans and snakes. Possibly flying squirrels?
What about parsley?
Since when does this universe have parsleymouths?
However, Harry knows that Draco’s snake is specifically a Blue Krait, and has seen it before. The probability that Quirrell would end up with a Blue Krait by pure chance is low.
The reference in the text doesn’t state anything more than that it was a snake, not that it was a Blue Krait. We don’t even get to see Harry’s reaction, be it familiarity or perceiving it as novel.
The snake is described as “gleaming soft white” and “silver”, which fits with the description of a patronus. And as it doesn’t match the description of Quirrelmort’s animagus snake “bright green and intricately banded in white and blue”, it is clearly not Quirrelmort’s animagus form.
While I assign a much higher probability that we just saw Drako’s patronus, we can’t rule out the possibility that it was someone else’s patronus, including Quirrelmort, even though I see those odds as being exceptionally low.
Sorry, I thought you were implying that Harry might be deceived by Quirrell pretending to be Draco, not that you were making a comment on what we can predict about the next chapter.
The chance that Quirrell would do anything by pure chance is low.
Just because Harry saw the snake Patronus doesn’t mean he recognizes the species. He probably could recognize the same Patronus, but maybe not; Harry paid more attention to it than a regular snake, but if I saw a snake once, and then saw another snake three months later, I don’t think I’d be sure they were the same even if I did have reason to think they were.
True. Then again, Harry knew when he taught Draco that one of the uses of a Patronus is to carry unfakeable messages, for which you need to know exactly what the other person’s Patronus looks like. Also, it’s the snake on Lucius’s cane, which we know he paid attention to. If he recognised Draco’s snake as that snake, it would set it firmly enough in his mind that he might recognise it when he saw it again.
File under “more evidence needed”.
Quirrel is said to be unable to cast the Patronus, and the established explanations for how it works makes it likely that this is true. Anyway, Harry already talked to Quirrel; no need for a second encounter.
Even if Quirrel had somehow learned how to cast a Patronus (which seems unlikely), why would he need to use it to communicate with Harry now?
Am still sure it’s Draco.
Perhaps Quirrel learned to cast a Patronus as a consequence of his discussion with Harry, in which case he may want to (1) say “thank you”, and (2) discuss new plans that now seem meaningful to him.
Even if that were the case, a Patronus delivers its message in the exact voice of the person who spoke to it, and as far as I know, that can’t be falsified. This means that not only will we find out if it’s Draco (almost certainly is), but we’ll also know if he’s in trouble or under duress (pretty likely; he’s Harry’s second best friend).