OK, so what did you mean by “behaviour” if it includes things you can only discover with an fMRI scan? (Possible “extreme” case: you simply mean that consciousness is something that happens in the physical world and supervenes on arrangements of atoms and fields and whatnot; I don’t think many here would disagree with that.)
If the criteria for consciousness include things you can’t observe “normally” but need fMRI scans and the like for (for the avoidance of doubt, I agree that they do) then you no longer have any excuse for answering “yes” to that last question.
My point wasn’t about hiding information; it was that much of the relevant information is already hidden, which you seemed to be denying when you said consciousness is just a matter of “behaviours”. It now seems like you weren’t intending to deny that at all; but in that case I no longer understand how what you’re saying is relevant to the OP.
The word behavior doesn’t really feature much in the ongoing discussions I have. My first post was an answer to OP, not meant as a stand-alone truth. But obviously, If “consciousness” means anything, it’s a thing that happens in the brain—I’d say it’s the thing that makes complex and human-like behaviors possible.
If the criteria for consciousness include things you can’t observe “normally” <...>
Normally is the key word here. There is nothing normal about your scenario. I need an fmri can for it, because there is nothing else that I can observe. Compared to that, the human in a box communicating through speech is very normal and quite sufficient. Unless the human is mute or malicious. Then I might need more complex tools.
much of the relevant information is already hidden
It’s obscured, sure. But truly hiding information is hard. Speech isn’t that narrow of a window, by the way. Now, if I had to communicate with the agent in the box by sending one bit of information back and forth, that would be more of a problem.
OK, so what did you mean by “behaviour” if it includes things you can only discover with an fMRI scan? (Possible “extreme” case: you simply mean that consciousness is something that happens in the physical world and supervenes on arrangements of atoms and fields and whatnot; I don’t think many here would disagree with that.)
If the criteria for consciousness include things you can’t observe “normally” but need fMRI scans and the like for (for the avoidance of doubt, I agree that they do) then you no longer have any excuse for answering “yes” to that last question.
My point wasn’t about hiding information; it was that much of the relevant information is already hidden, which you seemed to be denying when you said consciousness is just a matter of “behaviours”. It now seems like you weren’t intending to deny that at all; but in that case I no longer understand how what you’re saying is relevant to the OP.
The word behavior doesn’t really feature much in the ongoing discussions I have. My first post was an answer to OP, not meant as a stand-alone truth. But obviously, If “consciousness” means anything, it’s a thing that happens in the brain—I’d say it’s the thing that makes complex and human-like behaviors possible.
Normally is the key word here. There is nothing normal about your scenario. I need an fmri can for it, because there is nothing else that I can observe. Compared to that, the human in a box communicating through speech is very normal and quite sufficient. Unless the human is mute or malicious. Then I might need more complex tools.
It’s obscured, sure. But truly hiding information is hard. Speech isn’t that narrow of a window, by the way. Now, if I had to communicate with the agent in the box by sending one bit of information back and forth, that would be more of a problem.