I classify Julia’s actions as inconsistent, mostly.
At time T1, Julia prefers to date me rather than end our relationship and tell my wife. At time T2, Julia prefers to end our relationship and tell my wife. The transition between T1 and T2 evidently has something to do with the transient belief that her silence was worth $4k/week, but what exactly it has to do with that belief is unclear, since by Julia’s own account the truth or falsehood of that belief is irrelevant.
If I take her account as definitive, I’m pretty clear that what Julia is doing is not blackmail… it reduces to “Hey, I’ve decided to tell your wife about us, and there’s nothing you can do to stop me.” It isn’t even a threat, it’s just early warning of the intent to harm me.
If I assume she’s lying about her motives, either consciously or with some degree of self-delusion, it might be blackmail. For example, if she believes I really can afford to pay her, and am just claiming poverty as a negotiating tactic, which she is countering by claiming not to care about the money, then it follows that she’s blackmailing me.
If I assume that she doesn’t really have relevant motives anymore, she just precommitted to reveal the information if I don’t pay her and now she’s following through on her previous precommitment, and the fact that the precommitment was made based on one set of beliefs about the world and she now knows those beliefs were false at the time doesn’t change the fact that the precommitment was made (“often wrong, never uncertain”), then she clearly blackmailed me once, and I guess it follows that she’s still blackmailing me… maybe? It seems that if she set up a mechanical device that posts the secret to Facebook unless fed $4k in quarters once a week, and then changed her mind and decided she’d rather just keep dating me, but was unable to turn the device off, we could in the same sense say she was still blackmailing me, albeit against her own will. That is at best a problematic sense of blackmail, but not clearly an incorrect one.
So it seems pretty clear that the blackmailer’s intentions play some role in my intuitions about what is or isn’t blackmail, albeit a murky one.
Of course, I could choose to ignore my linguistic intuitions and adopt a simpler definition which I apply formally. Nothing wrong with that, but it makes questions about what is and isn’t blackmail sort of silly.
For example, if I say any attempt to get money in exchange for not revealing information, regardless of my state of mind, is blackmail, then the following scenario is clearly blackmail:
I develop a practical, cheap, unlimited energy source in my basement. Julia says “Honey, I work for the oil company, and we will pay you $N/week for the rest of your life if you keep your mouth shut about that energy source.” I agree and take the money.
My native speaker’s intuitions are very clear that this is not blackmail, but I’m happy to use the term “blackmail” as a term of art to describe it if that makes communication with you (and perhaps Vladimir Nesov) easier.
The transition between T1 and T2 evidently has something to do with the transient belief that her silence was worth $4k/week
Sorry. I think I communicated unclearly, which is the danger of using stories instead of examples and is my fault entirely. At the very start of the story, Julia learns about your wife at the same time she learns about the lottery. She had previously thought you were single and the new information shifted her preference ordering.
Regarding the example you used (oil company & energy), I also hold it is not blackmail. If I use the previous definition of Blackmail being the act of making an attempt to get money in exchange for not revealing information, then the attempt is the crucial part in this case (whether it succeeds or not). The oil company offering me money is okay; me trying to get money out of the oil company is blackmail.
(nods) As noted elsewhere, I missed this and was entirely mistaken about Julia’s motives. I stand corrected. You were perfectly clear, I just wasn’t reading attentively enough.
Re: blackmail… OK. So, if I develop the technology and I approach the oil company and say “I have this technology, I’ll guarantee you exclusive rights to it for $N/week,” that’s blackmail?
At time T1, Julia prefers to date me rather than end our relationship and tell my wife.
I think in Xachariah’s story Julia did not know prior to seeing you on TV that you have a wife. So there was no time at which she had the preference you describe here.
Ah! Good point, I forgot about that. You’re absolutely right… throughout, she presumably prefers to break up with me than date me if I’m married. My error.
Not sure if this is what confused you or not, but it has since been pointed out to me that I was wrong; Julia does not necessarily (and ought not be understood to) have this preference, as she did not know about my wife at T1.
I classify Julia’s actions as inconsistent, mostly.
At time T1, Julia prefers to date me rather than end our relationship and tell my wife.
At time T2, Julia prefers to end our relationship and tell my wife.
The transition between T1 and T2 evidently has something to do with the transient belief that her silence was worth $4k/week, but what exactly it has to do with that belief is unclear, since by Julia’s own account the truth or falsehood of that belief is irrelevant.
If I take her account as definitive, I’m pretty clear that what Julia is doing is not blackmail… it reduces to “Hey, I’ve decided to tell your wife about us, and there’s nothing you can do to stop me.” It isn’t even a threat, it’s just early warning of the intent to harm me.
If I assume she’s lying about her motives, either consciously or with some degree of self-delusion, it might be blackmail. For example, if she believes I really can afford to pay her, and am just claiming poverty as a negotiating tactic, which she is countering by claiming not to care about the money, then it follows that she’s blackmailing me.
If I assume that she doesn’t really have relevant motives anymore, she just precommitted to reveal the information if I don’t pay her and now she’s following through on her previous precommitment, and the fact that the precommitment was made based on one set of beliefs about the world and she now knows those beliefs were false at the time doesn’t change the fact that the precommitment was made (“often wrong, never uncertain”), then she clearly blackmailed me once, and I guess it follows that she’s still blackmailing me… maybe? It seems that if she set up a mechanical device that posts the secret to Facebook unless fed $4k in quarters once a week, and then changed her mind and decided she’d rather just keep dating me, but was unable to turn the device off, we could in the same sense say she was still blackmailing me, albeit against her own will. That is at best a problematic sense of blackmail, but not clearly an incorrect one.
So it seems pretty clear that the blackmailer’s intentions play some role in my intuitions about what is or isn’t blackmail, albeit a murky one.
Of course, I could choose to ignore my linguistic intuitions and adopt a simpler definition which I apply formally. Nothing wrong with that, but it makes questions about what is and isn’t blackmail sort of silly.
For example, if I say any attempt to get money in exchange for not revealing information, regardless of my state of mind, is blackmail, then the following scenario is clearly blackmail:
My native speaker’s intuitions are very clear that this is not blackmail, but I’m happy to use the term “blackmail” as a term of art to describe it if that makes communication with you (and perhaps Vladimir Nesov) easier.
Sorry. I think I communicated unclearly, which is the danger of using stories instead of examples and is my fault entirely. At the very start of the story, Julia learns about your wife at the same time she learns about the lottery. She had previously thought you were single and the new information shifted her preference ordering.
Regarding the example you used (oil company & energy), I also hold it is not blackmail. If I use the previous definition of Blackmail being the act of making an attempt to get money in exchange for not revealing information, then the attempt is the crucial part in this case (whether it succeeds or not). The oil company offering me money is okay; me trying to get money out of the oil company is blackmail.
And also sometimes okay. The distinction isn’t “okay” vs blackmail. It is blackmail vs not-blackmail and “okay” vs not-okay.
(nods) As noted elsewhere, I missed this and was entirely mistaken about Julia’s motives. I stand corrected. You were perfectly clear, I just wasn’t reading attentively enough.
Re: blackmail… OK. So, if I develop the technology and I approach the oil company and say “I have this technology, I’ll guarantee you exclusive rights to it for $N/week,” that’s blackmail?
I’d say it’s much closer to blackmail than the original oil company scenario.
I suppose I agree with that, but I wouldn’t call either of them blackmail. Would you?
I think in Xachariah’s story Julia did not know prior to seeing you on TV that you have a wife. So there was no time at which she had the preference you describe here.
Ah! Good point, I forgot about that. You’re absolutely right… throughout, she presumably prefers to break up with me than date me if I’m married. My error.
Something about this confused me.
Not sure if this is what confused you or not, but it has since been pointed out to me that I was wrong; Julia does not necessarily (and ought not be understood to) have this preference, as she did not know about my wife at T1.
No, it was just you talking about your wife in first person! :)
Ah. Well, my husband had one once, I suppose I might feel left out.