I am in occasional contact with religious people, and they don’t behave as the “separate magisteria” hypothesis would predict. [...] There is active denial here of something that belongs, in the magisterium of physical cause and effect, and active presumption of interference from the supposedly separate magisterium of faith.
Interactions between the magisteria are contradictions for you, not necessarily to a dualist who believes it all works out, somehow. (For example, somehow we know about the second magesterium, and knowledge of it has significance on our interaction with the first.)
Also complicating matters is that each religious person has their own location on a scale of self-consistency. I find that most religious people fall well short of self-consistent, but not as short as claiming the dragon doesn’t breath just so the CO2 detector won’t be used.
My point in the comments above is that when religious people claim that there is no evidence or counter-evidence for God, it’s not as often a desperate measure to protect their belief, but simply that their belief in God is not meant to be about an empirical fact like a dragon would be.
Interactions between the magisteria are contradictions for you, not necessarily to a dualist who believes it all works out, somehow.
Contradictions are contradictions. If, in general, the magisteria don’t interact, but in some specific case, they do interact, that’s a contradiction. It’s a model that doesn’t meet the axioms. That is a matter of logic. You can say “The dualist asserts that no interaction is taking place”, but you can’t say, “for the dualist, that is not a contradiction”.
I’m sorry to be brutal about this, but nothing I have ever heard anyone say about “separate magisteria” has ever been conceptually coherent let alone consistent.
I challenge myself to show you a concept of “separate magisteria” that is conceptually coherent and consistent. Of course it requires relaxation of the initial assumptions of empiricism. Should I proceed, or do you already grant the conclusion if I am going to relax these assumptions, to save me the trouble?
Interactions between the magisteria are contradictions for you, not necessarily to a dualist who believes it all works out, somehow. (For example, somehow we know about the second magesterium, and knowledge of it has significance on our interaction with the first.)
Also complicating matters is that each religious person has their own location on a scale of self-consistency. I find that most religious people fall well short of self-consistent, but not as short as claiming the dragon doesn’t breath just so the CO2 detector won’t be used.
My point in the comments above is that when religious people claim that there is no evidence or counter-evidence for God, it’s not as often a desperate measure to protect their belief, but simply that their belief in God is not meant to be about an empirical fact like a dragon would be.
Contradictions are contradictions. If, in general, the magisteria don’t interact, but in some specific case, they do interact, that’s a contradiction. It’s a model that doesn’t meet the axioms. That is a matter of logic. You can say “The dualist asserts that no interaction is taking place”, but you can’t say, “for the dualist, that is not a contradiction”.
I can.
In another comment you wrote,
I challenge myself to show you a concept of “separate magisteria” that is conceptually coherent and consistent. Of course it requires relaxation of the initial assumptions of empiricism. Should I proceed, or do you already grant the conclusion if I am going to relax these assumptions, to save me the trouble?