Yes, I think the thought probably crosses most people’s minds. I thought “Damn, this is HARD”, but didn’t ever seriously consider leaving. My guess is that the social support gives people strength they wouldn’t have alone.
Some random data: during my experience volunteering I saw that 2-4 men left on average from an initial group of around 50.
I did leave one course years ago, after the third day. I spoke to the teacher and then I was allowed to leave. I met some resistance, a reasonable and understandable one in my opinion.
The memory the course has left is one of the fondest of my entire life. Since then I sworn to myself to attend again, this time successfully. In fact I have recently applied to a course for early 2011.
As for the critiques I have seen so far in this thread, I concur with many of them at an intellectual level, but the bottom line is that you have to try, on your own, on the field, with a critical mind of course, but also an open heart.
My guess is that the social support gives people strength they wouldn’t have alone.
What I read (both site rules and participants’ experiences) suggests that people are to behave as much as possible like they’re alone—not only not speaking, but not really looking or interacting either. Did you not get that impression, or did the feeling of social support occur despite that?
Can you articulate what about it is difficult? The focus and mental effort in general, or the psychological experience? “No” is a valid answer to this, but I’m hoping not the only one. :)
Some random data: during my experience volunteering I saw that 2-4 men left on average from an initial group of around 50.
That matches the estimates I found. Of course, mostly it’s those two guys who go post on messages boards about it later.
Did you not get that impression, or did the feeling of social support occur despite that?
It occurred despite that. You don’t interact with other people, but you do meditate in the same large room, eat in the same room, and follow the same schedule. The videos at night discuss problems that most students have, which also helps build social support. Knowing that many people are going through similar difficulties is empowering.
Can you articulate what about it is difficult?
Sustained mental effort, unpleasant emotional experiences, unsavory personal realizations, and physical pain. Straight head-butting your mental habits.
unpleasant emotional experiences, unsavory personal realizations
These occur in the vipassana stage, after the anapana? I think I have a good idea of where my various faults are and possible ways to fix them, having tried to work with them in the CBT framework. I tend to be rather harsh on myself, so I’ve had a quite a few unsavory personal realizations. Do you think there are likely to be more such realizations than I anticipate? Basically I figured I’d attacked myself from every which way already. :)
In my experience, anapana is more difficult and brings up more stuff because, unlike vipassana, simply focusing on the breath doesn’t provide a way to deal with the stuff that comes up.
The thing to remember, though, is that you are trying to focus on breath (anapana) and body sensation (vipassana). Specific thoughts are more or less a distraction. Of course, your thoughts and mental state are tied to the sensations you experience, but because staying equanimous to the sensations is the tool your are using, the actual content of the thoughts are not something you are trying to focus on.
In my experience, anapana is more difficult and brings up more stuff because, unlike vipassana, simply focusing on the breath doesn’t provide a way to deal with the stuff that comes up.
Hm, what does ‘deal with’ mean here? To me it brings to mind ‘apply rapid fire cognitive behavioral therapy techniques’, but that would require conscious deliberation on the thought. Perhaps the difference is that anapanasati is (or can be) just concentration where vipassana is concentration and mindfulness, and only the mindfulness part helps in dealing with stuff that comes up?
Yes, I think the thought probably crosses most people’s minds. I thought “Damn, this is HARD”, but didn’t ever seriously consider leaving. My guess is that the social support gives people strength they wouldn’t have alone.
Some random data: during my experience volunteering I saw that 2-4 men left on average from an initial group of around 50.
I did leave one course years ago, after the third day. I spoke to the teacher and then I was allowed to leave. I met some resistance, a reasonable and understandable one in my opinion.
The memory the course has left is one of the fondest of my entire life. Since then I sworn to myself to attend again, this time successfully. In fact I have recently applied to a course for early 2011.
As for the critiques I have seen so far in this thread, I concur with many of them at an intellectual level, but the bottom line is that you have to try, on your own, on the field, with a critical mind of course, but also an open heart.
What I read (both site rules and participants’ experiences) suggests that people are to behave as much as possible like they’re alone—not only not speaking, but not really looking or interacting either. Did you not get that impression, or did the feeling of social support occur despite that?
Can you articulate what about it is difficult? The focus and mental effort in general, or the psychological experience? “No” is a valid answer to this, but I’m hoping not the only one. :)
That matches the estimates I found. Of course, mostly it’s those two guys who go post on messages boards about it later.
It occurred despite that. You don’t interact with other people, but you do meditate in the same large room, eat in the same room, and follow the same schedule. The videos at night discuss problems that most students have, which also helps build social support. Knowing that many people are going through similar difficulties is empowering.
Sustained mental effort, unpleasant emotional experiences, unsavory personal realizations, and physical pain. Straight head-butting your mental habits.
These occur in the vipassana stage, after the anapana? I think I have a good idea of where my various faults are and possible ways to fix them, having tried to work with them in the CBT framework. I tend to be rather harsh on myself, so I’ve had a quite a few unsavory personal realizations. Do you think there are likely to be more such realizations than I anticipate? Basically I figured I’d attacked myself from every which way already. :)
In my experience, anapana is more difficult and brings up more stuff because, unlike vipassana, simply focusing on the breath doesn’t provide a way to deal with the stuff that comes up.
The thing to remember, though, is that you are trying to focus on breath (anapana) and body sensation (vipassana). Specific thoughts are more or less a distraction. Of course, your thoughts and mental state are tied to the sensations you experience, but because staying equanimous to the sensations is the tool your are using, the actual content of the thoughts are not something you are trying to focus on.
Hm, what does ‘deal with’ mean here? To me it brings to mind ‘apply rapid fire cognitive behavioral therapy techniques’, but that would require conscious deliberation on the thought. Perhaps the difference is that anapanasati is (or can be) just concentration where vipassana is concentration and mindfulness, and only the mindfulness part helps in dealing with stuff that comes up?
I see. Okay, that’s all I’ve got for now; thanks for being patient with the third degree. ;)