Welcome! And congratulations for creating what’s probably the longest and most interesting introduction thread of all time (I haven’t read all the introductions threads, though).
I’ve read all your posts here. I now have to update my belief about rationality among christians: so long, the most “rational” I’d found turned out to be nothing beyond a repetitive expert in rationalization. Most others are sometimes relatively rational in most aspects of life, but choose to ignore the hard questions about the religion they profess (my own parents fall in this category). You seem to have clear thought, and will to rethink your ideas. I hope you stay around.
On a side note, as others already stated below, I think you misunderstand what Eliezer wants to do with FAI. I agree with what MixedNuts said here, though I would also recommend reading The Hidden Complexity of Wishes, if you haven’t yet. Eliezer is more sane than it seems at first, in my opinion.
PS: How are you feeling about the reception so far?
EDIT: Clarifying: I agree with what MixedNuts said in the third and fourth paragraphs.
I think I’ve gotten such a nice reception that I’ve also updated in the direction of “most atheists aren’t cruel or hateful in everyday life” and “LessWrong believes in its own concern for other people because most members are nice”.
The wish on top of that page is actually very problematic…
The ordinary standard of courtesy here is pretty high, and I don’t think you get upvotes for meeting it. You can get upvotes for being nice (assuming that you also include content) if it’s a fraught issue.
I’ve also updated in the direction of “most atheists aren’t cruel or hateful in everyday life”
I’m not sure atheist LW users would be a good sample of “most atheists”. I’d expect there to be a sizeable fraction of people who are atheists merely as a form of contrarianism.
I’d expect there to be a sizeable fraction of people who are atheists merely as a form of contrarianism.
I don’t think that’s the case. I do think there are a good many people who are naturally contrarian, and use their atheism as a platform. There are also people who become atheists after having been mistreated in a religion, and they’re angry.
I’m willing to bet a modest amount that going from religious to atheist has little or no effect on how much time a person spends on arguing about religion, especially in the short run.
Well, IME in Italy people from the former Kingdom of the Two Sicilies are usually much more religious than people from the former Papal States and the latter are much more blasphemous, and I have plenty of reasons to believe it’s not a coincidence.
The wish on top of that page is actually very problematic...
Yes, that was a part of the point of the article—people try to fully specify what they want, it gets this complex, and it’s still missing things; meanwhile, people understand what someone means when they say “I wish I was immortal.”
Right—there’s no misunderstanding, because the complexity is hidden by expectations and all sorts of shared stuff that isn’t likely to be there when talking to a genie of the “sufficiently sophisticated AI” variety, unless you are very careful about making sure that it is. Hence, the wish has hidden complexity—the point (and title) of the article.
Upvoted for linking The Hidden Complexity of Wishes. If Eliezer was actually advocating adjusting people’s sex drives, rather than speculating as to the form a compromise might take, he wasn’t following his own advice.
Welcome! And congratulations for creating what’s probably the longest and most interesting introduction thread of all time (I haven’t read all the introductions threads, though).
I’ve read all your posts here. I now have to update my belief about rationality among christians: so long, the most “rational” I’d found turned out to be nothing beyond a repetitive expert in rationalization. Most others are sometimes relatively rational in most aspects of life, but choose to ignore the hard questions about the religion they profess (my own parents fall in this category). You seem to have clear thought, and will to rethink your ideas. I hope you stay around.
On a side note, as others already stated below, I think you misunderstand what Eliezer wants to do with FAI. I agree with what MixedNuts said here, though I would also recommend reading The Hidden Complexity of Wishes, if you haven’t yet. Eliezer is more sane than it seems at first, in my opinion.
PS: How are you feeling about the reception so far?
EDIT: Clarifying: I agree with what MixedNuts said in the third and fourth paragraphs.
I think I’ve gotten such a nice reception that I’ve also updated in the direction of “most atheists aren’t cruel or hateful in everyday life” and “LessWrong believes in its own concern for other people because most members are nice”.
The wish on top of that page is actually very problematic…
Oh, and do people usually upvote for niceness?
For a certain value of niceness, yes.
The ordinary standard of courtesy here is pretty high, and I don’t think you get upvotes for meeting it. You can get upvotes for being nice (assuming that you also include content) if it’s a fraught issue.
I’m not sure atheist LW users would be a good sample of “most atheists”. I’d expect there to be a sizeable fraction of people who are atheists merely as a form of contrarianism.
I don’t think that’s the case. I do think there are a good many people who are naturally contrarian, and use their atheism as a platform. There are also people who become atheists after having been mistreated in a religion, and they’re angry.
I’m willing to bet a modest amount that going from religious to atheist has little or no effect on how much time a person spends on arguing about religion, especially in the short run.
Well, IME in Italy people from the former Kingdom of the Two Sicilies are usually much more religious than people from the former Papal States and the latter are much more blasphemous, and I have plenty of reasons to believe it’s not a coincidence.
Yes, that was a part of the point of the article—people try to fully specify what they want, it gets this complex, and it’s still missing things; meanwhile, people understand what someone means when they say “I wish I was immortal.”
Well, they understand it about as well as the speaker does. It’s not clear to me that the speaker always knows what they mean.
Right—there’s no misunderstanding, because the complexity is hidden by expectations and all sorts of shared stuff that isn’t likely to be there when talking to a genie of the “sufficiently sophisticated AI” variety, unless you are very careful about making sure that it is. Hence, the wish has hidden complexity—the point (and title) of the article.
Upvoted for linking The Hidden Complexity of Wishes. If Eliezer was actually advocating adjusting people’s sex drives, rather than speculating as to the form a compromise might take, he wasn’t following his own advice.