Maybe I’ll beat some of it into a useful form and post it.
For one thing, the label “trolling” seems like it distracts more than it adds, just like “dark arts.” AspiringKnitter’s first post was loaded with influence techniques, as you point out, but it’s not clear to me that pointing at influence techniques and saying “influence bad!” is valuable, especially in an introduction thread. I mean, what’s the point of understanding human interaction if you use that understanding to botch your interactions?
There is a clear benefit to pointing out when a mass of other people are falling for influence techniques in a way you consider undesirable.
It is certainly worth pointing out the techniques, especially since it looks like not everyone noticed them. What’s not clear to me is the desirability of labeling it as “bad,” which is how charges of trolling are typically interpreted.
Easiest first: I introduced “dark arts” as an example of a label that distracted more than it added. It wasn’t meant as a reference to or description of your posts.
In your previous comment, you asked the wrong question (‘were they attempting to persuade?’) and then managed to come up with the wrong answer (‘nope’). Both of those were disappointing (the first more so) especially in light of your desire to spread your experience.
The persuasion was “please respond to me nicely.” It was richly rewarded: 20 welcoming responses (when most newbies get 0 or 1), and the first unwelcoming response got downvoted quickly.
The right question is, what are our values, here? When someone expressing a desire to be welcomed uses influence techniques that further that end, should we flip the table over in disgust that they tried to influence us? That’ll show them that we’re savvy customers that can’t be trolled! Or should we welcome them because we want the community to grow? That’ll show them that we’re worth sticking around.
I will note that I upvoted this post, because in the version that I saw it started off with “Some of your other posts are intelligent” and then showed many of the tricks AspiringKnitter’s post used. Where I disagree with you is the implication that we should have rebuked her for trolling. The potential upsides of treating someone with charity and warmth is far greater than the potential downsides of humoring a troll for a few posts.
For one thing, the label “trolling” seems like it distracts more than it adds, just like “dark arts.” AspiringKnitter’s first post was loaded with influence techniques, as you point out, but it’s not clear to me that pointing at influence techniques and saying “influence bad!” is valuable, especially in an introduction thread. I mean, what’s the point of understanding human interaction if you use that understanding to botch your interactions?
There is a clear benefit to pointing out when a mass of other people are falling for influence techniques in a way you consider undesirable.
It is certainly worth pointing out the techniques, especially since it looks like not everyone noticed them. What’s not clear to me is the desirability of labeling it as “bad,” which is how charges of trolling are typically interpreted.
I see your point, but that post wasn’t using dark arts to persuade anything, it looked very much like the purpose was controversy. Hence trolling.
Son, I am disappoint.
are you implying there was persuasion going on? or that I used “dark arts” when I shouldn’t?
Easiest first: I introduced “dark arts” as an example of a label that distracted more than it added. It wasn’t meant as a reference to or description of your posts.
In your previous comment, you asked the wrong question (‘were they attempting to persuade?’) and then managed to come up with the wrong answer (‘nope’). Both of those were disappointing (the first more so) especially in light of your desire to spread your experience.
The persuasion was “please respond to me nicely.” It was richly rewarded: 20 welcoming responses (when most newbies get 0 or 1), and the first unwelcoming response got downvoted quickly.
The right question is, what are our values, here? When someone expressing a desire to be welcomed uses influence techniques that further that end, should we flip the table over in disgust that they tried to influence us? That’ll show them that we’re savvy customers that can’t be trolled! Or should we welcome them because we want the community to grow? That’ll show them that we’re worth sticking around.
I will note that I upvoted this post, because in the version that I saw it started off with “Some of your other posts are intelligent” and then showed many of the tricks AspiringKnitter’s post used. Where I disagree with you is the implication that we should have rebuked her for trolling. The potential upsides of treating someone with charity and warmth is far greater than the potential downsides of humoring a troll for a few posts.
Ok. That makes sense.
Was parent downvoted for asking questions or for improper capitalization?
Was I downvoted for asking about downvotes or false dilemma?
Was I downvoted for meta-humor or carrying the joke too far?