Well partially it seems that if they’re just parroting stuff back, they haven’t really learned anything, so it’s not much of a loss if you change your methods and they still don’t learn. Basically, you haven’t got a lot to lose. Mind you, I’m an engineer, not a teacher, and this is just my impression. I would defer to the actual experts.
I’d say just burn them over and over for parroting, and reward them over and over for thinking. If you ask questions of the class as the normal thing, a student will feel good about themselves for saying what you want to hear in response, which trains the teacher’s password reflex. If you instead throw them curve balls all the time such that they reward themselves for solving the tricky puzzle or feel slightly ashamed for blurting out a phrase which doesn’t connect to reality, they will learn to think. Maybe.
For stuff like multiplication tables, you really do want to just memorize verbal patterns a lot of the time. So obviously keep that in mind.
See my from first principles essay for an example of a teacher who I think did it right.
Basically, make the exercises require application of what you are actually trying to teach, rather than just a verbal statement of it.
If you instead throw them curve balls all the time such that they reward themselves for solving the tricky puzzle or feel slightly ashamed for blurting out a phrase which doesn’t connect to reality, they will learn to think. Maybe.
The tricky part here is not to shame them too much; otherwise, they might stop answering questions at all.
It’s important to encourage trying things, at the same time as you try to discourage trying random, haphazard phrases. Sometimes it might be hard to tell the difference.
The tricky part here is not to shame them too much; otherwise, they might stop answering questions at all.
Yes, very tricky balance. With people in as fragile a situation as students, even explicitly calling them out at all might be too much. That’s why I meant that the unreward should come from within the student.
Maybe it’s just a matter of not rewarding it. I don’t know.
It’s much easier with adults. At least with adults they will sometimes tell you what they are thinking.
For some introductory material, memorization really is required. 5 x 5 = 25 is a true fact that I expect a young student to simply memorize.
Looking back, we can understand why it is important to learn those types of things—but the explanation of why is often far more complex than the object level fact.
I recently spent a bunch of time realizing that memorizing multiplication tables, formulas, and random numerical facts about the world is a really good idea. (fermi estimation). I notice you need some theory to actually connect the memorized facts to reality, though.
What use is 5*5 = 25 is you don’t know how to use numbers and recognize when multiplication is appropriate?
Maybe the trick is to get students to solve mostly complete world-connected problems so that they develop the skills of connecting the memorized procedures to something useful.
Still, as you say, at a sufficiently early stage in development, the students might not even be cognitively capable of connecting the facts to reality, but they need to memorize them for later.
I certainly learned “six times four is twenty four” before I learned anything approaching actual practical use of math.
I wonder what the simplest actual-practical-use-of-math is? Balancing a checkbook? Counting sheep? (I really ought not cite an essay I dislike so much).
P.S. At least math has basic facts that are worth memorizing. I’m still confused on what can usefully be learned in elementary school history class.
I wonder what the simplest actual-practical-use-of-math is?
Despite the rambling nature of that “essay” the counting sheep thing is a really good example.
Might want to make it connect to their reality. I wonder if there is a way to use math on becoming popular or whatever elementary kids care about.
Pokemon was an epic driver of (nonuseful) study for people in my generation. It was an RPG, too, so you could squeeze a lot of math out of it. I wonder if the schooling establishment has the ability to keep up with what kids are doing?
I’m still confused on what can usefully be learned in elementary school history class.
Propaganda and indoctrination? You might be able to tell them that the past really sucked and most of the world still sucks, and it’s their destiny to grow up to make the world awesome.
Probably, as well as attempt some really quick immunization against fascists or whatever. Also, you might drill into them that things are complicated and happen You also could give a really quick outline of the world. I know that in 5th grade I did not know any of the following:
The world is really, really big.
A lot of the world outside of America has a standard of living similar to America, but even more of it doesnt. Its getting better.
Not sure about Pokemon or making studying fun. Attempts to make educational games often fail miserably, and children quickly learn that things that adults tell them will be fun won’t be. Some of these were basically just ‘guess the teacher’s password’ games.
Democracy has been around for a long time and most countries are democracies, or pretending to be.
Teaching people that the struggle of awesomeness is on their shoulders is easy to sound ridiculous, may seem absurd to people who are about to go into low-status or even just unglamorous jobs, and tends to get really trite really fast so I am not sure how to deal with it in a to-be-mainstream school.
Well partially it seems that if they’re just parroting stuff back, they haven’t really learned anything, so it’s not much of a loss if you change your methods and they still don’t learn. Basically, you haven’t got a lot to lose. Mind you, I’m an engineer, not a teacher, and this is just my impression. I would defer to the actual experts.
I’d say just burn them over and over for parroting, and reward them over and over for thinking. If you ask questions of the class as the normal thing, a student will feel good about themselves for saying what you want to hear in response, which trains the teacher’s password reflex. If you instead throw them curve balls all the time such that they reward themselves for solving the tricky puzzle or feel slightly ashamed for blurting out a phrase which doesn’t connect to reality, they will learn to think. Maybe.
For stuff like multiplication tables, you really do want to just memorize verbal patterns a lot of the time. So obviously keep that in mind.
See my from first principles essay for an example of a teacher who I think did it right.
Basically, make the exercises require application of what you are actually trying to teach, rather than just a verbal statement of it.
The tricky part here is not to shame them too much; otherwise, they might stop answering questions at all.
It’s important to encourage trying things, at the same time as you try to discourage trying random, haphazard phrases. Sometimes it might be hard to tell the difference.
Yes, very tricky balance. With people in as fragile a situation as students, even explicitly calling them out at all might be too much. That’s why I meant that the unreward should come from within the student.
Maybe it’s just a matter of not rewarding it. I don’t know.
It’s much easier with adults. At least with adults they will sometimes tell you what they are thinking.
For some introductory material, memorization really is required. 5 x 5 = 25 is a true fact that I expect a young student to simply memorize.
Looking back, we can understand why it is important to learn those types of things—but the explanation of why is often far more complex than the object level fact.
I recently spent a bunch of time realizing that memorizing multiplication tables, formulas, and random numerical facts about the world is a really good idea. (fermi estimation). I notice you need some theory to actually connect the memorized facts to reality, though.
What use is 5*5 = 25 is you don’t know how to use numbers and recognize when multiplication is appropriate?
Maybe the trick is to get students to solve mostly complete world-connected problems so that they develop the skills of connecting the memorized procedures to something useful.
Still, as you say, at a sufficiently early stage in development, the students might not even be cognitively capable of connecting the facts to reality, but they need to memorize them for later.
I certainly learned “six times four is twenty four” before I learned anything approaching actual practical use of math.
I wonder what the simplest actual-practical-use-of-math is? Balancing a checkbook? Counting sheep? (I really ought not cite an essay I dislike so much).
P.S. At least math has basic facts that are worth memorizing. I’m still confused on what can usefully be learned in elementary school history class.
Despite the rambling nature of that “essay” the counting sheep thing is a really good example.
Might want to make it connect to their reality. I wonder if there is a way to use math on becoming popular or whatever elementary kids care about.
Pokemon was an epic driver of (nonuseful) study for people in my generation. It was an RPG, too, so you could squeeze a lot of math out of it. I wonder if the schooling establishment has the ability to keep up with what kids are doing?
Propaganda and indoctrination? You might be able to tell them that the past really sucked and most of the world still sucks, and it’s their destiny to grow up to make the world awesome.
Probably, as well as attempt some really quick immunization against fascists or whatever. Also, you might drill into them that things are complicated and happen You also could give a really quick outline of the world. I know that in 5th grade I did not know any of the following:
The world is really, really big.
A lot of the world outside of America has a standard of living similar to America, but even more of it doesnt. Its getting better.
Not sure about Pokemon or making studying fun. Attempts to make educational games often fail miserably, and children quickly learn that things that adults tell them will be fun won’t be. Some of these were basically just ‘guess the teacher’s password’ games.
Democracy has been around for a long time and most countries are democracies, or pretending to be.
Teaching people that the struggle of awesomeness is on their shoulders is easy to sound ridiculous, may seem absurd to people who are about to go into low-status or even just unglamorous jobs, and tends to get really trite really fast so I am not sure how to deal with it in a to-be-mainstream school.