I think it’s safe to say that the majority of women who flatly reject an offer for a date or continually ignore an advance, do NOT want to be pursued further. There are exceptions, and some people do change their minds, but if that’s what you meant by ‘rejection,’ then No means No. Hard to get is a more complicated dance than “Will you go out with me,” “Uhhh.… you’re not my type. No.”
But it’s not nearly as simple as you just portrayed it.
I mean, we all like to feel superior as we shake our heads in contempt at the poor guy who just won’t give up. She’s obviously not into you, man! She told you “no”. Just let it go!
Er … until we look over there and see the women talking glowingly about how charming and romantic it was for her husband/fiance/current boyfriend to keep pursuing her even when she flatly told him no, and is now glad that he didn’t take her seriously then.
Given those cases, it’s quite a bit more understandable why a man would refuse to give up on such an “obvious” case.
Let’s assume for a moment that these cases are exceptional. (I would in any case agree that they’re not the norm, but not rare either.) Does that exceptionality not suffice to explain the commonality of overpersistent (and overcautious) men?
Of the people heading to Hollywood with big dreams, the ones that become movie stars are the exception. Yet the potential rewards suffice to explain the hordes of people who try anyway.
Of the people working up the corporate ladder, millionaire executives/VPs are the exception. Yet the potential rewards suffice to explain the hordes of people who try anyway.
Of the people trying to become professional athletes, those that can make a living at it are the exception. Yet the potential rewards suffice to explain the hordes of people who try anyway.
So the “woman who rejects firmly and later changes her mind” is the exception? So what. It’s still understandable why such cases would have a disproportionate motive force.
But I supsect that if there’s any bias in counting up these cases, it would understate their availability in our recollection. Remember, once the suitor has become “the good guy”, the halo effect kicks in. See now, my guy never acted in contravention of the “No means No” rule. See, I didn’t give a real no. My guy isn’t one of those freaks who would disobey the rules we promote...
That’s assuming she continues to remember her impression of him at the time of rejection in the first place.
By the way: of the people voting on my comments in this discussion, your downvotes are the exception ;-)
Of the people heading to Hollywood with big dreams, the ones that become movie stars are the exception. Yet the potential rewards suffice to explain the hordes of people who try anyway.
Actually, they largely don’t. There is such a thing as overconfidence bias, you know. Most people would be better off ex-ante if they did not try to become top executives, movie stars, or pro athletes. Similarly, contraventing flat, “just say no” refusals is not a rationally optimal choice.
I know—I didn’t mean they’re justified by a standard rational utility maximization analysis. The point was just that it’s consistent with general overconfidence/miscalibration we observe in people in many other areas, even under the unfavorable assumptions thomblake gave.
ETA: Note that I said the incentives explain the numerous people who compete, not that the incentives justify such action. Also, I said it was “disproportionate motive force”. And no, I didn’t edit the original post just so it would have all that. :-P
Perhaps you’re hearing these stories because they’re exceptional?
More to the point, how do we trust these second- and third-hand stories to be reported accurately? My guess is that the “just say no” refusals were anything but, and that the stories are extremized. At the very least, the participants would have had plenty of side information which we’d know nothing about.
Me neither. But I do often hear about such cases second-hand. So even if these cases aren’t common, they may have a big impact on those who witness them.
I think it’s safe to say that the majority of women who flatly reject an offer for a date or continually ignore an advance, do NOT want to be pursued further. There are exceptions, and some people do change their minds, but if that’s what you meant by ‘rejection,’ then No means No. Hard to get is a more complicated dance than “Will you go out with me,” “Uhhh.… you’re not my type. No.”
But it’s not nearly as simple as you just portrayed it.
I mean, we all like to feel superior as we shake our heads in contempt at the poor guy who just won’t give up. She’s obviously not into you, man! She told you “no”. Just let it go!
Er … until we look over there and see the women talking glowingly about how charming and romantic it was for her husband/fiance/current boyfriend to keep pursuing her even when she flatly told him no, and is now glad that he didn’t take her seriously then.
Given those cases, it’s quite a bit more understandable why a man would refuse to give up on such an “obvious” case.
I’m not familiar with any such cases. Are they really as common as you think they are?
Perhaps you’re hearing these stories because they’re exceptional?
Let’s assume for a moment that these cases are exceptional. (I would in any case agree that they’re not the norm, but not rare either.) Does that exceptionality not suffice to explain the commonality of overpersistent (and overcautious) men?
Of the people heading to Hollywood with big dreams, the ones that become movie stars are the exception. Yet the potential rewards suffice to explain the hordes of people who try anyway.
Of the people working up the corporate ladder, millionaire executives/VPs are the exception. Yet the potential rewards suffice to explain the hordes of people who try anyway.
Of the people trying to become professional athletes, those that can make a living at it are the exception. Yet the potential rewards suffice to explain the hordes of people who try anyway.
So the “woman who rejects firmly and later changes her mind” is the exception? So what. It’s still understandable why such cases would have a disproportionate motive force.
But I supsect that if there’s any bias in counting up these cases, it would understate their availability in our recollection. Remember, once the suitor has become “the good guy”, the halo effect kicks in. See now, my guy never acted in contravention of the “No means No” rule. See, I didn’t give a real no. My guy isn’t one of those freaks who would disobey the rules we promote...
That’s assuming she continues to remember her impression of him at the time of rejection in the first place.
By the way: of the people voting on my comments in this discussion, your downvotes are the exception ;-)
Actually, they largely don’t. There is such a thing as overconfidence bias, you know. Most people would be better off ex-ante if they did not try to become top executives, movie stars, or pro athletes. Similarly, contraventing flat, “just say no” refusals is not a rationally optimal choice.
I know—I didn’t mean they’re justified by a standard rational utility maximization analysis. The point was just that it’s consistent with general overconfidence/miscalibration we observe in people in many other areas, even under the unfavorable assumptions thomblake gave.
ETA: Note that I said the incentives explain the numerous people who compete, not that the incentives justify such action. Also, I said it was “disproportionate motive force”. And no, I didn’t edit the original post just so it would have all that. :-P
More to the point, how do we trust these second- and third-hand stories to be reported accurately? My guess is that the “just say no” refusals were anything but, and that the stories are extremized. At the very least, the participants would have had plenty of side information which we’d know nothing about.
I know of no such cases.
I’ll see your anecdotal absence of evidence and raise you another anecdote.
(Two friends of mine, who recently got married, tell just such a story.)
Me neither. But I do often hear about such cases second-hand. So even if these cases aren’t common, they may have a big impact on those who witness them.