And indeed, the example given is its use in defending Judaism. This should raise red flags!
I’ve recently had a couple conversations with someone who does this a lot (in the context of Judaism). He appears to be quite smart and instrumentally rational in general, but his epistemology is so horrible as to make communication about theory selection just about impossible. The worst part is that his epistemology is heavily fortified, and there ain’t nothin’ you can do to talk some sense in- and I’m talking about non religious topics. It seems to be at least another level past that of the average Christian.
The system is very rarely used to defend Judaism per se. Chavrutas will only very rarely debate or argue over those fundamental premises.
As to your friend- I’m pretty sure he’s the exception rather than the rule. Having interacted with a large number of Orthodox Jews (both when I was Orthodox and after), they aren’t any better at apologetics than the average Christian. Epistemological issues exist, but they exist as they do in essentially all religious frameworks (I’m actually beginning to think that common epistemological flaws are one of the unifying features of religion). Judaism has some epistemological problems that many forms of Christianity do not have, such as heavy emphasis on tradition and ancestral belief as extremely strong valid evidence, but these problems seem to be divorced from the chavruta system.
Have you tried asking him to do an exchange where in this conversation you do your best to adopt his epistemology and in that conversation he does his best to adopt yours? Agree to briefly agree, and trade off who agrees with whom.
In conversations with other people, that’s an awesome technique. In this case, I’d be very surprised if it’d work. He’s a competent hypnotist, so he knows all about getting people to imagine that they believe different things… and then forget that they’re imagining. He wouldn’t “fall” for that one.
As Peterdjones said, a lot of it is metasuggestion. However, that is not the whole story, and there are ways to get the same effects without using the word “hypnosis”.
On top of that, most of the interesting stuff just got buried under the label of “suggestion”.
“Hypnosis” is a horribly vague word, but its basically all about learning how to talk to the different parts of the brain and engineering what you say as to get the different parts to respond the way you want. “Engineered placebo”, perhaps.
What kind of answer are you looking for? I can’t explain the whole lot in a short comment, but I’d consider writing a post on what researching hypnosis has taught me, if there’s interest.
Its hard to fake too, the reason it works so well is the people that wont be hypnotized are removed early in the process. The only way ive ever seen someone successfully mess with a good hypnotist is when my friend hypnotized himself first, so that he would be able to break the hypnotism in the middle of the hypnotists act with help from a separate trigger. Then you can really mess with the guy successfully making everyone suggestible.
And indeed, the example given is its use in defending Judaism. This should raise red flags!
I’ve recently had a couple conversations with someone who does this a lot (in the context of Judaism). He appears to be quite smart and instrumentally rational in general, but his epistemology is so horrible as to make communication about theory selection just about impossible. The worst part is that his epistemology is heavily fortified, and there ain’t nothin’ you can do to talk some sense in- and I’m talking about non religious topics. It seems to be at least another level past that of the average Christian.
The system is very rarely used to defend Judaism per se. Chavrutas will only very rarely debate or argue over those fundamental premises.
As to your friend- I’m pretty sure he’s the exception rather than the rule. Having interacted with a large number of Orthodox Jews (both when I was Orthodox and after), they aren’t any better at apologetics than the average Christian. Epistemological issues exist, but they exist as they do in essentially all religious frameworks (I’m actually beginning to think that common epistemological flaws are one of the unifying features of religion). Judaism has some epistemological problems that many forms of Christianity do not have, such as heavy emphasis on tradition and ancestral belief as extremely strong valid evidence, but these problems seem to be divorced from the chavruta system.
Have you tried asking him to do an exchange where in this conversation you do your best to adopt his epistemology and in that conversation he does his best to adopt yours? Agree to briefly agree, and trade off who agrees with whom.
In conversations with other people, that’s an awesome technique. In this case, I’d be very surprised if it’d work. He’s a competent hypnotist, so he knows all about getting people to imagine that they believe different things… and then forget that they’re imagining. He wouldn’t “fall” for that one.
How does Hypnotism even work?
As Peterdjones said, a lot of it is metasuggestion. However, that is not the whole story, and there are ways to get the same effects without using the word “hypnosis”.
On top of that, most of the interesting stuff just got buried under the label of “suggestion”.
“Hypnosis” is a horribly vague word, but its basically all about learning how to talk to the different parts of the brain and engineering what you say as to get the different parts to respond the way you want. “Engineered placebo”, perhaps.
What kind of answer are you looking for? I can’t explain the whole lot in a short comment, but I’d consider writing a post on what researching hypnosis has taught me, if there’s interest.
interested hand is raised
a) it has been suggested to people. by culture in general that there is such a thing as hypnosis, which works in such-and-such way.
b) This existing suggestion can be used to suggest to people that they become more suggestible than they are already.
In short;
c) it’s suggestion all the way down.
Suppose I cast a magic spell to make magic start working for everyone in the universe, including myself retroactively so that I can cast the spell.
I would not expect magic to start working.
Conclusion: there’s something real happening in the vicinity of the referent of “suggestion”.
I’m not saying suggestion is nothing. I am saying the level of suggestibility is never zero.
Its hard to fake too, the reason it works so well is the people that wont be hypnotized are removed early in the process. The only way ive ever seen someone successfully mess with a good hypnotist is when my friend hypnotized himself first, so that he would be able to break the hypnotism in the middle of the hypnotists act with help from a separate trigger. Then you can really mess with the guy successfully making everyone suggestible.
This is way more hilarious than it has any right to be.