I would hesitate to call that an evil act. If nothing else, evil requires the intention to do harm, where here the parents are almost certainly intending to do precisely what they believe is in the child’s best interests.
By the same reasoning, an Inquisitor who tortured a woman to death because he was certain she was a witch and that witches are agents of the Devil did nothing evil. Well, whatever, call it ‘harmful’ instead of evil, if you like. The point is that religious beliefs make those who hold them do things that they would consider evil (or harmful) if they were better rationalists.
To quote Steven Weinberg: “With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
Except that torturing a woman because of a belief that she is a witch is not done for her sake.
Regardless, if we are going to judge all good-faith attempts to help somebody else evil unless the information therein imparted conforms to our present beliefs, then I suspect a great deal of the information we give each other (including on this site) will be judged as evil by the same standard in the future.
What, never? While I can’t be sure of the actual (as opposed to professed) motivations of people who tortured alleged witches, I’m pretty sure that in some cases the ostensible purpose of the torture was to produce repentance and thereby save the witch’s immortal soul. For someone who believes in immortal souls and heaven and hell and so forth, that could easily end up seeming like a transaction that benefits the torturee overall.
(I agree with your second paragraph, though I’m not sure anyone’s doing quite what you describe.)
This exact reasoning was generally used to justify the torture of heretics (not witches) until they recanted. After all, no Earthly torture could ever be worse than eternity in Hell, so most versions of utilitarianism would allow anything that keeps souls out of Hell.
No, you’re right, I’m sure there are cases in which torturers could at least rationalize that what they were doing was for the sake of the woman’s soul.
I’ve often wondered, from my time as a Catholic: if I intentionally kill someone at the moment of their confession/absolution, such that their soul is perfectly clean and I have extremely good reason to believe (within this framework) that their soul will go to Heaven, would I not be making the truly ultimate sacrifice? If my soul then were to go to Hell, I would have been literally as altruistic as it is possible to be, so my soul should go to Heaven; knowing that, however, might make me go to Hell?
Which is why reasonable moral systems ought to be slow to categorize others’ good-faith actions as evil—we never know what we are doing wrong. There’s some chance that future civilizations will think of me as evil for eating meat—hell, they could think of our civilization as barbaric for consuming living beings at all, rather than synthesizing sustenance some other way.
Not the truly ultimate sacrifice from that perspective, no. I recommend Jorge Luis Borges’s short fiction Three versions of Judas for further ideas along those lines.
If you’re a Nazi and you take a pill that causes you to believe Jews are dangerous nonsentient vampires, is killing Jews thereafter less evil? Well, probably in that case all the evil moves causally upstream into the pill-taking. But that, I think, is the same thing we’re saying about the pill that is Mormonism.
And of course there’s no reason for it to stop there. For some reason we haven’t explicitly talked about this here AFAICT, but if you’re a materialist there’s no hope of assigning ultimate evil to people anyway, and there’s no point in trying. I’m not saying you disagree.
I don’t know by what words to call it, but there is something that to me differentiates the moral qualities of Joseph Smith teaching Mormonism to his followers, and Wednesday’s parents teaching it to her: Joseph Smith (I assign high probability) explicitly knew Mormonism to be false, and spread belief in it, knowing its likely consequences, in order to increase his own wealth, status, and opportunity for sex.
That is also the case we’re considering in the context of this post—someone who has evidence that Mormonism is false, but chooses to ignore this evidence for personal gain, and spreads belief in Mormonism by first spreading it in herself.
From one perspective, assuming that spreading lies for profit is actually wrong, that most people would see it on reflection as a less preferable option, and assuming that JS wasn’t a mutant, he was mistaken about whether he improved his life by doing so.
Beyond that, I’d find it hard to call any insane person “evil.” How do we blame somebody for receiving incorrect sensory inputs?
Of course, this gets into all kinds of analytic philosophy and the “social construction” of sanity. Which is precisely why I want us to be careful what we call evil.
I would hesitate to call that an evil act. If nothing else, evil requires the intention to do harm, where here the parents are almost certainly intending to do precisely what they believe is in the child’s best interests.
By the same reasoning, an Inquisitor who tortured a woman to death because he was certain she was a witch and that witches are agents of the Devil did nothing evil. Well, whatever, call it ‘harmful’ instead of evil, if you like. The point is that religious beliefs make those who hold them do things that they would consider evil (or harmful) if they were better rationalists.
To quote Steven Weinberg: “With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
Except that torturing a woman because of a belief that she is a witch is not done for her sake.
Regardless, if we are going to judge all good-faith attempts to help somebody else evil unless the information therein imparted conforms to our present beliefs, then I suspect a great deal of the information we give each other (including on this site) will be judged as evil by the same standard in the future.
What, never? While I can’t be sure of the actual (as opposed to professed) motivations of people who tortured alleged witches, I’m pretty sure that in some cases the ostensible purpose of the torture was to produce repentance and thereby save the witch’s immortal soul. For someone who believes in immortal souls and heaven and hell and so forth, that could easily end up seeming like a transaction that benefits the torturee overall.
(I agree with your second paragraph, though I’m not sure anyone’s doing quite what you describe.)
This exact reasoning was generally used to justify the torture of heretics (not witches) until they recanted. After all, no Earthly torture could ever be worse than eternity in Hell, so most versions of utilitarianism would allow anything that keeps souls out of Hell.
No, you’re right, I’m sure there are cases in which torturers could at least rationalize that what they were doing was for the sake of the woman’s soul.
I’ve often wondered, from my time as a Catholic: if I intentionally kill someone at the moment of their confession/absolution, such that their soul is perfectly clean and I have extremely good reason to believe (within this framework) that their soul will go to Heaven, would I not be making the truly ultimate sacrifice? If my soul then were to go to Hell, I would have been literally as altruistic as it is possible to be, so my soul should go to Heaven; knowing that, however, might make me go to Hell?
Which is why reasonable moral systems ought to be slow to categorize others’ good-faith actions as evil—we never know what we are doing wrong. There’s some chance that future civilizations will think of me as evil for eating meat—hell, they could think of our civilization as barbaric for consuming living beings at all, rather than synthesizing sustenance some other way.
Still, point taken.
Not the truly ultimate sacrifice from that perspective, no. I recommend Jorge Luis Borges’s short fiction Three versions of Judas for further ideas along those lines.
If you’re a Nazi and you take a pill that causes you to believe Jews are dangerous nonsentient vampires, is killing Jews thereafter less evil? Well, probably in that case all the evil moves causally upstream into the pill-taking. But that, I think, is the same thing we’re saying about the pill that is Mormonism.
but the pill was administered you by your parents, who received one from their parents...
if the evil moves upstream to the pill-taking then all (or most) of the evil of mormonism moves upstream to Joseph Smith.
And of course there’s no reason for it to stop there. For some reason we haven’t explicitly talked about this here AFAICT, but if you’re a materialist there’s no hope of assigning ultimate evil to people anyway, and there’s no point in trying. I’m not saying you disagree.
I don’t know by what words to call it, but there is something that to me differentiates the moral qualities of Joseph Smith teaching Mormonism to his followers, and Wednesday’s parents teaching it to her: Joseph Smith (I assign high probability) explicitly knew Mormonism to be false, and spread belief in it, knowing its likely consequences, in order to increase his own wealth, status, and opportunity for sex.
That is also the case we’re considering in the context of this post—someone who has evidence that Mormonism is false, but chooses to ignore this evidence for personal gain, and spreads belief in Mormonism by first spreading it in herself.
From one perspective, assuming that spreading lies for profit is actually wrong, that most people would see it on reflection as a less preferable option, and assuming that JS wasn’t a mutant, he was mistaken about whether he improved his life by doing so.
fixed =)
Beyond that, I’d find it hard to call any insane person “evil.” How do we blame somebody for receiving incorrect sensory inputs?
Of course, this gets into all kinds of analytic philosophy and the “social construction” of sanity. Which is precisely why I want us to be careful what we call evil.