I certainly didn’t intend to imply that this was the only viewpoint, or even that it was necessarily better, only that it addressed some of the issues with what seemed to be the only current possibility. I agree that it would require considerable research into how to achieve it: my point is that these would be upfront costs, whereas cryonics has backloaded costs (technological as well as financial). I also did not mean that a “hydronically” preserved organism (I like your term) could be stored anywhere, simply that it is easier to establish passive storage. Egyptian mummies lasted thousands of years in their dry, desert tombs, but can decay rapidly when exposed to moister climes. Bacteria need warmth and water to be active: removing one or the other is sufficient. We already preserve food at room temperature using the same principle (salt or sugar both preserve food by dehydrating bacteria).
Thus skipping or being ignorant of the details doesn’t help that much.
The fact is, we do not currently have a reliable means of arresting a human’s metabolic processes (including post-mortem decay) and restoring them. We don’t have the details for restoring cryonically preserved persons. “Advanced nanotech” is just a mysterious answer until we know how to do it. The intention of the post was to stimulate thought (which I think it has done). I do not believe I have to have all the answers before I can ask the questions. New ideas arise from making new connections between existing concepts, and sometimes this means concepts existing in two different minds.
Personally, I’d rather just go on existing here and now. Preservation is just a backup option, much like backing up your computer files: you’d rather not have a system crash, but if you do, you can recover. On the other hand, cryonics is our only current “backup” option, so the choice is a “no-brainer”. Even a slim chance is preferrably to no chance.
So eventually before long you have to dig deeper.
Agreed, but I don’t know where to begin digging. Which is why I threw this open to the forum.
And doing today what you could do tomorrow ensures you don’t get stuck in the past.
I’m not sure I understand what you mean by that: don’t put off what you can do today?
Making small firm steps at a time is easily supported. Taking only a single step for not knowing how to take more is very probably underapplying ones knowledge. If the reasoning can go on with basically a empty reply from another party it’s likely thought was suppressed very early. If one strives to take things to their logical conclusion this is a bad thing.
If it’s not clear do understand that the post was supportable. I could just convince of ways it could have been awesomer. I could have communicated better what kinds of more sharper thinking could have happened in writing this post or atleast not detract attention (needlessly lenghten) with on topic content from the thinking options available. Instead of just settling for the first step one could say to one say : “I need to go deeper” que inception music. And you propably want to do that in the first place instead of waiting around for a demanding reason to do it.
I have just recently starting to vote what I read and explicitly state my reason for that decision. Not all people want to have every detail rubbed against their face. When asked I can elaborate. I might not be adept enough in rationality foruming to offer a detailed analysis of what went wrong or help what can be done that such shortcomings don’t happen in the future. Because of known tendency that people don’t tend to cast themselfs as villains in their story, for precaution, I will also mention that this is likely to be a newbie-newbie interaction as discussed on the “eternal september” threads.
But I do vote and say why I vote and I hope that that is more valuable than my explanations being misleading/confusing is detrimental. I don’t know, I am experimenting whether it works. I could easily be that the long explanation is just noise with the signal being in those word or phrase like descriptions.
I appreciate the feedback, and the more detailed the better. I am always looking to improve my own effectiveness, especially in communication. One of my most frustrating, and unfortunately all too common, experiences is thinking something through, coming up with what turns out to be the correct answer, and being unable to convince others. (I am not suggesting that I have the right answer in this case; in fact, the odds are that I don’t.) To me, the more specific the feedback, the better. So, for example, dissecting the post, saying “this is good”, “this could use more support”, “this does not follow”, etc., is extremely helpful (to me, anyway).
As a measure of the value of your feedback, I have upvoted your responses, because I do find them useful. So I hope that provides some good feedback for your own experimenting :)
I certainly didn’t intend to imply that this was the only viewpoint, or even that it was necessarily better, only that it addressed some of the issues with what seemed to be the only current possibility. I agree that it would require considerable research into how to achieve it: my point is that these would be upfront costs, whereas cryonics has backloaded costs (technological as well as financial). I also did not mean that a “hydronically” preserved organism (I like your term) could be stored anywhere, simply that it is easier to establish passive storage. Egyptian mummies lasted thousands of years in their dry, desert tombs, but can decay rapidly when exposed to moister climes. Bacteria need warmth and water to be active: removing one or the other is sufficient. We already preserve food at room temperature using the same principle (salt or sugar both preserve food by dehydrating bacteria).
The fact is, we do not currently have a reliable means of arresting a human’s metabolic processes (including post-mortem decay) and restoring them. We don’t have the details for restoring cryonically preserved persons. “Advanced nanotech” is just a mysterious answer until we know how to do it. The intention of the post was to stimulate thought (which I think it has done). I do not believe I have to have all the answers before I can ask the questions. New ideas arise from making new connections between existing concepts, and sometimes this means concepts existing in two different minds.
Personally, I’d rather just go on existing here and now. Preservation is just a backup option, much like backing up your computer files: you’d rather not have a system crash, but if you do, you can recover. On the other hand, cryonics is our only current “backup” option, so the choice is a “no-brainer”. Even a slim chance is preferrably to no chance.
Agreed, but I don’t know where to begin digging. Which is why I threw this open to the forum.
I’m not sure I understand what you mean by that: don’t put off what you can do today?
Making small firm steps at a time is easily supported. Taking only a single step for not knowing how to take more is very probably underapplying ones knowledge. If the reasoning can go on with basically a empty reply from another party it’s likely thought was suppressed very early. If one strives to take things to their logical conclusion this is a bad thing.
If it’s not clear do understand that the post was supportable. I could just convince of ways it could have been awesomer. I could have communicated better what kinds of more sharper thinking could have happened in writing this post or atleast not detract attention (needlessly lenghten) with on topic content from the thinking options available. Instead of just settling for the first step one could say to one say : “I need to go deeper” que inception music. And you propably want to do that in the first place instead of waiting around for a demanding reason to do it.
I have just recently starting to vote what I read and explicitly state my reason for that decision. Not all people want to have every detail rubbed against their face. When asked I can elaborate. I might not be adept enough in rationality foruming to offer a detailed analysis of what went wrong or help what can be done that such shortcomings don’t happen in the future. Because of known tendency that people don’t tend to cast themselfs as villains in their story, for precaution, I will also mention that this is likely to be a newbie-newbie interaction as discussed on the “eternal september” threads.
But I do vote and say why I vote and I hope that that is more valuable than my explanations being misleading/confusing is detrimental. I don’t know, I am experimenting whether it works. I could easily be that the long explanation is just noise with the signal being in those word or phrase like descriptions.
I appreciate the feedback, and the more detailed the better. I am always looking to improve my own effectiveness, especially in communication. One of my most frustrating, and unfortunately all too common, experiences is thinking something through, coming up with what turns out to be the correct answer, and being unable to convince others. (I am not suggesting that I have the right answer in this case; in fact, the odds are that I don’t.) To me, the more specific the feedback, the better. So, for example, dissecting the post, saying “this is good”, “this could use more support”, “this does not follow”, etc., is extremely helpful (to me, anyway).
As a measure of the value of your feedback, I have upvoted your responses, because I do find them useful. So I hope that provides some good feedback for your own experimenting :)