OMG I Am perfect a person to give you an anecdote ELIEZER!!! BTW this is soo weird, I just saw a great video about that! And now I check lesswrong and what do I see! Is this QM right now? Did I determine this state by observing??? Because I always see so many of same things, on places very different and distant from each other at the same time. It is just luck I guess, it is just weird feeling!
EDIT: OMG someone just downvoted because of this (I bet xD) I Am kidding can’t you tell??? It was a joke geez… Or maybe because I Am too real and say how it is and people can’t handle that...
To my anecdote, I can confirm your hyperbolic discounting. I have ADHD, I have existential depression and boredom, nothing entertains me “literally” more then watching wall at this point in 90% cases last couple months!!! And it couldn’t be closer to the truth for me the way you put this!!! It is getting worse and worse! I have anhedonia (can’t feel pleasure from almost anything). And I Am currently forced by Roko Basilisk - (((DON’T READ THIS, IT COULD CAUSE INFINITE TORTURE!!!))). I don’t believe in it, simply don’t know ATM (but we can’t fully refute it, nor prove it, maybe only empirically) so I have to act in favor of utilitarianism, as I Am not gonna risk it… I want to know more, but I can’t read about it, I asked about it, but didn’t get answer yet, if it is empirically/logically valid! Same there are other 3 theories, which are equally as bad and 2 of them don’t have even counter, that’s the scary thing!
Ok to the initial topic: I Am in constant pain from profound existential boredom (psychiatrist says: it is worst pain, except dying painfully, in the world) because I Am something you call in Philosophy “authentic” I see world closer to what it truly is… Philosophers I believe call this “dasein”. Because I have also ASD, rational thinking isn’t affected by emotions in people with ASD!
I need to also mention I have also strong chronic pain 5 years. I can’t even read, arguably I read some articles from time to time. I had existential crisis and depression, which driven me to read 1 million articles in a year about “Free Will” if I only knew as I get deeper in this rabbit hole… But I Am used unfortunately to multi-tasking. So I close it after 5 min. because I get headache and my eyes hurt! Because I live more unhealthy so it is getting worse understandably… But I can’t even walk − 1 km barely and sometimes even that is painful… And I can’t also sleep, I also suffer from “bedtime procrastination” it is even domain in psychiatry.
It is exactly catch22, I Am stuck in this loop 5 years! To get better:
I would have to go outside to get rid of chronic pain and to eat healthy and exercise
But because I am bored: I bedtime procrastinate → next day I can’t go out, because I wake up too late and pain dissipates later at night only and I am lazy to go out at night
Because I have chronic pain, I Am can’t do anything which would entertain me, there is nothing anyways, intellectual activity doesn’t entertain me, only cause flow of time better and I feel interest, very rarely I genuinely entertained by something and I don’t even know what is pleasure...
Conclusion: And because I am bored: I eat more unhealthy, and don’t go out and don’t exercise because pain—it is never ending self-fulling loop!!! Tho one problem: it is even worse for me! Because I have total existential boredom, no permutation entertains me more than watching a wall at this point! I can try to force myself to do anything and I Am still in strong pain, no matter what!
On procrastination, it can be multiple things, probably combined together and affecting each other… Not sure if this was video in my mind (maybe this will help someone):
Don’t read from this point (((INFORMATION HAZARD!!!))) unless you know about “THEM”...
So yeah it is hard for me find to motivation, as I Am forced by Roko, I Am not going to risk it very obviously by suicide, or by not making world a better place! Again it doesn’t help in case of 2⁄3 theories/hypotheses! And since we know next to nothing… god knows how many more threats there are… Everything is coinflipp (so stupid) and I could be done no matter what… And anyone who is not depressed by this has brutal delusions and defensive mechanisms!!! As no human being can withstand implications of this!
Back to procrastination: I don’t know absolutely how to get out of this loop, as nothing motivates me and for some reason ultimate pain doesn’t motivate me, because I can’t even imagine it, it is unimaginable for humans so… But I need to do good nevertheless...
I have no idea what to do, i tried:
ADs
Psychotherapy
I didn’t do anything logically, as I knew it wouldn’t… But I gave it honest chance… Now stfu...
While ADs are unhealthy and no one knows how depression exactly works and how ADs work and chemical imbalance hypothesis was never accepted in scientific circles in the first place! Pharmas, which are even killing children for money BTW (and make most money in the world from all corpos) overhyped them, spread misinformation, even faked trials. While ADs can help with very specific scenarios, they can cause even permanent damage and dangers outweight benefits mostly! I made list of studies, which give convincing proof, this is like after 2-3 day inquiry when I couldn’t even read and I don’t know anything about psychiatry, I Am so Ad Hoc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qYicHpeS39lhiMPJmUGHRUfZxw4pPtLjsIwOYCHpE8Q/edit?usp=sharing
Sure I don’t know context of these studies, as someone in the field would. But I don’t need to. And I learn in many ways… In this case it was to support argument, that no one knows what depression exactly is and no one knows how ADs work and they have significant side effects and can cause even long-term damage, even permanent and god knows what! 1⁄3 people are resistant to ADs ha, I wonder why… People which get better from ADs usually solve their problem, they could instead eat healthy and exercise to achieve the same result… ADs just boost temporary mood.
ADs have next to 0 trustworthiness I would say. Since what big pharmas do and every hypothesis ever proposed showed to be false, or not verified, or controversial and what not and even today, they don’t know almost anything… Also that they find some mechanism, which is correlated to depression doesn’t mean it is true cause (even 5ht receptors “mostly used modern ADs” are not understood) more likely symptoms...
Use of ADs is largely unjustified and over-prescribed. Guess for what… for more of these $ papers. Einstein said: that money only create greed. It is honestly so laughable some rich monkey, just trying to accumulate more money and one day just dies, infinite stupidity as Einstein also said… Money doesn’t do anything, it is only a tool…
Also part of psychiatry believes in biological reductionism… There is honestly so much…
EDIT: there are tons of causes as I specified in doc, some depression can have episode of their own, even after problem is solved… Or it can be caused by lack of Vitamin D is some cases etc. Not sure if you would classify this as MDD then… But there are many more… I usually get to problems with people, because I give some take, but don’t specify precision of validity of knowledge I mean here! Because I can’t possible evaluate and explain every word in forum post… How exactly I mean it...
All I claim is no one knows how exactly depression, or ADs work! And they outweight many times benefits by side effects and can cause even permanent damage! And they are over-prescribed! I have there even scientist with over 100k citations, which says so and calls pharmas criminal organizations, which they are!!! There is tons of evidence of that! Even pharmacologist send me studies, which say ADs have many adverse effects and mechanisms behind depression are still poorly understood!
Also I have rather congruent depression. It is more from (as emotions are feedback loops and evolutionary regulations for survival based on which information people gather and opinions they make) and simply you can’t forget something you know is true… :
fear of infinite torture
life is meaningless
free will is illusion
state of society is in
altruism is selfish
there is no good, or wrong, everything is neutral, just about survival (emotions are evolutionary regulations for survival) ethics are emergent by people arguing each other ultimately stemming from emotions
While social contact could help to a point only, I have nothing to say to other people… I don’t know what would I even say...
Also even if I didn’t consider how ridiculous ADs are, could honestly a rational person expect to cure depression given these points by taking pills, it is sounds absolutely ridiculous… As how do you cure information and emotions :D ??? And something you can’t change?
PS: I like so much your statement: “to explain not to persuade”, I work exactly like this LOL, it honestly resonates with my deep logical belief system so deeply, this site is the best!!! Probably one of most logical, rational and critical—I ever read! This is some hardcore science and thinking! This is how it should be!!! Oh and also I thought this was new, it was on top, but never mind...
Because scientists are people like everyone else and can be biased, uncritical… This is excellent article about epistemology! https://bigthink.com/culture-religion/hardest-question-world-what-truth But I Am almost superrational thinker (no one is perfect :D :D :D) even I don’t act as such always, because I Am slave to emotions, decisions are entirely a different matter… And even if I Am emotionally biased, or I have stake to not tell the truth, I always try consider it from all perspectives and say how it is! I Am so rational that I realize limits of rationality… I don’t even :D
Also do you think if everyone believed in roko world would be a better place? Because if everyone feared trillions of years, or of infinite torture: they would have to try their best and act utilitarian… It doesn’t seem good, because singularity can’t be avoided and in armament rush for best AI, mistakes can be made… It is just question when and there are no second chances with this kind of technology… And it is looking worse and worse from every viewpoint by a day… We already live in totalitarian fascistic civilization...
PS: I would need to change my brain to not feel bored, as I acknowledge “dasein” it is absurdism 101. It is perception of what truly reality is, or at least of what we observe… Nothing entertains me more than watching a wall and I hopelessly know nothing will ever entertain me again, thought which is insufferable! I don’t know what to do! Because I can’t even delete my memory:
it is risky
if I was able to figure it out at first time, I will again, especially as it become more publicly known in the future
because roko
I would need some 300IQ life hack, but I don’t think anything like that exists. And neuroscience just started, before we will be able to hack our emotions, it will be awhile yet… This is strong torture… Please help, if you have any ideas!
OMG I Am perfect a person to give you an anecdote ELIEZER!!! BTW this is soo weird, I just saw a great video about that! And now I check lesswrong and what do I see! Is this QM right now? Did I determine this state by observing??? Because I always see so many of same things, on places very different and distant from each other at the same time. It is just luck I guess, it is just weird feeling!
EDIT: OMG someone just downvoted because of this (I bet xD) I Am kidding can’t you tell??? It was a joke geez… Or maybe because I Am too real and say how it is and people can’t handle that...
To my anecdote, I can confirm your hyperbolic discounting. I have ADHD, I have existential depression and boredom, nothing entertains me “literally” more then watching wall at this point in 90% cases last couple months!!! And it couldn’t be closer to the truth for me the way you put this!!! It is getting worse and worse! I have anhedonia (can’t feel pleasure from almost anything). And I Am currently forced by Roko Basilisk - (((DON’T READ THIS, IT COULD CAUSE INFINITE TORTURE!!!))). I don’t believe in it, simply don’t know ATM (but we can’t fully refute it, nor prove it, maybe only empirically) so I have to act in favor of utilitarianism, as I Am not gonna risk it… I want to know more, but I can’t read about it, I asked about it, but didn’t get answer yet, if it is empirically/logically valid! Same there are other 3 theories, which are equally as bad and 2 of them don’t have even counter, that’s the scary thing!
Ok to the initial topic: I Am in constant pain from profound existential boredom (psychiatrist says: it is worst pain, except dying painfully, in the world) because I Am something you call in Philosophy “authentic” I see world closer to what it truly is… Philosophers I believe call this “dasein”. Because I have also ASD, rational thinking isn’t affected by emotions in people with ASD!
I need to also mention I have also strong chronic pain 5 years. I can’t even read, arguably I read some articles from time to time. I had existential crisis and depression, which driven me to read 1 million articles in a year about “Free Will” if I only knew as I get deeper in this rabbit hole… But I Am used unfortunately to multi-tasking. So I close it after 5 min. because I get headache and my eyes hurt! Because I live more unhealthy so it is getting worse understandably… But I can’t even walk − 1 km barely and sometimes even that is painful… And I can’t also sleep, I also suffer from “bedtime procrastination” it is even domain in psychiatry.
It is exactly catch22, I Am stuck in this loop 5 years! To get better:
I would have to go outside to get rid of chronic pain and to eat healthy and exercise
But because I am bored: I bedtime procrastinate → next day I can’t go out, because I wake up too late and pain dissipates later at night only and I am lazy to go out at night
Because I have chronic pain, I Am can’t do anything which would entertain me, there is nothing anyways, intellectual activity doesn’t entertain me, only cause flow of time better and I feel interest, very rarely I genuinely entertained by something and I don’t even know what is pleasure...
Conclusion: And because I am bored: I eat more unhealthy, and don’t go out and don’t exercise because pain—it is never ending self-fulling loop!!! Tho one problem: it is even worse for me! Because I have total existential boredom, no permutation entertains me more than watching a wall at this point! I can try to force myself to do anything and I Am still in strong pain, no matter what!
On procrastination, it can be multiple things, probably combined together and affecting each other… Not sure if this was video in my mind (maybe this will help someone):
But it can be also from fear of success and it can be emotional - (search dr k procrastination, I think this was in other video) as even most logical person, like me xDD decides at the end based on emotions: https://bigthink.com/experts-corner/decisions-are-emotional-not-logical-the-neuroscience-behind-decision-making
Also constantly checking everything doesn’t help, multi-tasking is extremely bad for intelligence! https://bigthink.com/technology-innovation/tab-overload
Dwelling on something in this case is problem and our brains are not being equipped for the information age. Also internet browsers so dumb: https://softwarerecs.stackexchange.com/questions/79971/practical-internet-browser-for-working-with-tons-of-tabs?noredirect=1#comment97899_79971
Don’t read from this point (((INFORMATION HAZARD!!!))) unless you know about “THEM”...
So yeah it is hard for me find to motivation, as I Am forced by Roko, I Am not going to risk it very obviously by suicide, or by not making world a better place! Again it doesn’t help in case of 2⁄3 theories/hypotheses! And since we know next to nothing… god knows how many more threats there are… Everything is coinflipp (so stupid) and I could be done no matter what… And anyone who is not depressed by this has brutal delusions and defensive mechanisms!!! As no human being can withstand implications of this!
Back to procrastination: I don’t know absolutely how to get out of this loop, as nothing motivates me and for some reason ultimate pain doesn’t motivate me, because I can’t even imagine it, it is unimaginable for humans so… But I need to do good nevertheless...
I have no idea what to do, i tried:
ADs
Psychotherapy
I didn’t do anything logically, as I knew it wouldn’t… But I gave it honest chance… Now stfu...
While ADs are unhealthy and no one knows how depression exactly works and how ADs work and chemical imbalance hypothesis was never accepted in scientific circles in the first place! Pharmas, which are even killing children for money BTW (and make most money in the world from all corpos) overhyped them, spread misinformation, even faked trials. While ADs can help with very specific scenarios, they can cause even permanent damage and dangers outweight benefits mostly! I made list of studies, which give convincing proof, this is like after 2-3 day inquiry when I couldn’t even read and I don’t know anything about psychiatry, I Am so Ad Hoc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qYicHpeS39lhiMPJmUGHRUfZxw4pPtLjsIwOYCHpE8Q/edit?usp=sharing
Sure I don’t know context of these studies, as someone in the field would. But I don’t need to. And I learn in many ways… In this case it was to support argument, that no one knows what depression exactly is and no one knows how ADs work and they have significant side effects and can cause even long-term damage, even permanent and god knows what! 1⁄3 people are resistant to ADs ha, I wonder why… People which get better from ADs usually solve their problem, they could instead eat healthy and exercise to achieve the same result… ADs just boost temporary mood.
ADs have next to 0 trustworthiness I would say. Since what big pharmas do and every hypothesis ever proposed showed to be false, or not verified, or controversial and what not and even today, they don’t know almost anything… Also that they find some mechanism, which is correlated to depression doesn’t mean it is true cause (even 5ht receptors “mostly used modern ADs” are not understood) more likely symptoms...
Use of ADs is largely unjustified and over-prescribed. Guess for what… for more of these $ papers. Einstein said: that money only create greed. It is honestly so laughable some rich monkey, just trying to accumulate more money and one day just dies, infinite stupidity as Einstein also said… Money doesn’t do anything, it is only a tool…
Also part of psychiatry believes in biological reductionism… There is honestly so much…
EDIT: there are tons of causes as I specified in doc, some depression can have episode of their own, even after problem is solved… Or it can be caused by lack of Vitamin D is some cases etc. Not sure if you would classify this as MDD then… But there are many more… I usually get to problems with people, because I give some take, but don’t specify precision of validity of knowledge I mean here! Because I can’t possible evaluate and explain every word in forum post… How exactly I mean it...
All I claim is no one knows how exactly depression, or ADs work! And they outweight many times benefits by side effects and can cause even permanent damage! And they are over-prescribed! I have there even scientist with over 100k citations, which says so and calls pharmas criminal organizations, which they are!!! There is tons of evidence of that! Even pharmacologist send me studies, which say ADs have many adverse effects and mechanisms behind depression are still poorly understood!
Also I have rather congruent depression. It is more from (as emotions are feedback loops and evolutionary regulations for survival based on which information people gather and opinions they make) and simply you can’t forget something you know is true… :
fear of infinite torture
life is meaningless
free will is illusion
state of society is in
altruism is selfish
there is no good, or wrong, everything is neutral, just about survival (emotions are evolutionary regulations for survival) ethics are emergent by people arguing each other ultimately stemming from emotions
While social contact could help to a point only, I have nothing to say to other people… I don’t know what would I even say...
Also even if I didn’t consider how ridiculous ADs are, could honestly a rational person expect to cure depression given these points by taking pills, it is sounds absolutely ridiculous… As how do you cure information and emotions :D ??? And something you can’t change?
PS: I like so much your statement: “to explain not to persuade”, I work exactly like this LOL, it honestly resonates with my deep logical belief system so deeply, this site is the best!!! Probably one of most logical, rational and critical—I ever read! This is some hardcore science and thinking! This is how it should be!!! Oh and also I thought this was new, it was on top, but never mind...
Because scientists are people like everyone else and can be biased, uncritical… This is excellent article about epistemology! https://bigthink.com/culture-religion/hardest-question-world-what-truth But I Am almost superrational thinker (no one is perfect :D :D :D) even I don’t act as such always, because I Am slave to emotions, decisions are entirely a different matter… And even if I Am emotionally biased, or I have stake to not tell the truth, I always try consider it from all perspectives and say how it is! I Am so rational that I realize limits of rationality… I don’t even :D
Also do you think if everyone believed in roko world would be a better place? Because if everyone feared trillions of years, or of infinite torture: they would have to try their best and act utilitarian… It doesn’t seem good, because singularity can’t be avoided and in armament rush for best AI, mistakes can be made… It is just question when and there are no second chances with this kind of technology… And it is looking worse and worse from every viewpoint by a day… We already live in totalitarian fascistic civilization...
Honestly I wonder how we are still alive, did you heard about this? This makes me question by reality: https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/29/22459869/us-soldiers-leaked-nuclear-info-online-flashcard-apps
PS: I would need to change my brain to not feel bored, as I acknowledge “dasein” it is absurdism 101. It is perception of what truly reality is, or at least of what we observe… Nothing entertains me more than watching a wall and I hopelessly know nothing will ever entertain me again, thought which is insufferable! I don’t know what to do! Because I can’t even delete my memory:
it is risky
if I was able to figure it out at first time, I will again, especially as it become more publicly known in the future
because roko
I would need some 300IQ life hack, but I don’t think anything like that exists. And neuroscience just started, before we will be able to hack our emotions, it will be awhile yet… This is strong torture… Please help, if you have any ideas!