Something has gone severely wrong with the ‘steelman’ concept if it is now being used offensively,
No offense intended :-)
to force social obligations onto others
Request, not force
it is up to others to search related concept space to find the nearest possible good argument for a better conclusion
My remark that steelmanning keeps the discussion on track is genuine in intention. I agree that norms for steelmanning could conceivably become too strong for efficient discourse, but I think that at the margin, it would be better if people were doing much more steelmanning.
I think the concept you’re looking for is the principle of charity. Steel man is what you do to someone else’s argument in order to make sure yours is good, after you’ve defeated their actual argument. Principle of charity is what you do in discourse to make sure you’re having the best possible discussion.
If you think Eliezer should have steelmanned your argument then you think he has already defeated it—before he even commented!
I guess I didn’t mean that he didn’t steelman my argument, I meant that he didn’t steelman the things that he was objecting to. For example, he could have noted that I did give an example of the type that he seems to have been looking for, rather than focusing on the fact that the Penrose example isn’t of the type that he was looking for. I agree that there’s substantial overlap between this and the principle of charity.
No offense intended :-)
Request, not force
My remark that steelmanning keeps the discussion on track is genuine in intention. I agree that norms for steelmanning could conceivably become too strong for efficient discourse, but I think that at the margin, it would be better if people were doing much more steelmanning.
I think the concept you’re looking for is the principle of charity. Steel man is what you do to someone else’s argument in order to make sure yours is good, after you’ve defeated their actual argument. Principle of charity is what you do in discourse to make sure you’re having the best possible discussion.
If you think Eliezer should have steelmanned your argument then you think he has already defeated it—before he even commented!
I guess I didn’t mean that he didn’t steelman my argument, I meant that he didn’t steelman the things that he was objecting to. For example, he could have noted that I did give an example of the type that he seems to have been looking for, rather than focusing on the fact that the Penrose example isn’t of the type that he was looking for. I agree that there’s substantial overlap between this and the principle of charity.