EY has publicly posted material that is intended to provoke thought on the possibility of legalizing rape (which is considered a form of violence).
That’s an… interesting way of putting it, where by “interesting” I mean “wrong”. I could go off on how the idea is that there’s particular modern-day people who actually exist and that you’re threatening to harm, and how a future society where different things feel harmful is not that, but you know, screw it.
This is why I will be opposed to any sort of zero tolerance policy
The ‘rules’ do not ‘mandate’ that I delete anything. They hardly could. I’m just, before I start deleting things, giving people fair notice that this is what I’m considering doing, and offering them a chance to say anything I might have missed about why it’s a terrible idea.
That’s an… interesting way of putting it, where by “interesting” I mean “wrong”.
If you genuinely can’t see how similar considerations apply to you personally publishing rape-world stories and the reasoning you explicitly gave in the post then I suggest you have a real weakness in evaluating the consequences of your own actions on perception.
I could go off on how the idea is that there’s particular modern-day people who actually exist and that you’re threatening to harm, and how a future society where different things feel harmful is not that, but you know, screw it.
I approve of your Three Worlds Collide story (in fact, I love it). I also approve of your censorship proposal/plan. I also believe there is no need to self censor that story (particularly at the position you were when you published it). That said:
This kind of display of evident obliviousness and arrogant dismissal rather than engagement or—preferably—even just outright ignoring it may well do more to make Lesswrong look bad than half a dozen half baked speculative posts by CronoDAS. There are times to say “but you know, screw it” and “where by interesting I mean wrong” but those times don’t include when concern is raised about your legalised-rape-and-it’s-great story in the context of your own “censor hypothetical violence ’cause it sounds bad” post.
That’s an… interesting way of putting it, where by “interesting” I mean “wrong”. I could go off on how the idea is that there’s particular modern-day people who actually exist and that you’re threatening to harm, and how a future society where different things feel harmful is not that, but you know, screw it.
So if I suggest killing people in the context of futurism, that’s OK with you?
This seems to me like a deliberate misunderstanding. But taking it at face value, a story in which violence is committed against targets not analogous to any present-day identifiable people, or which is not committed for any reasons obviously analogous to present-day motives, is fine. The Sword of Good is not advocating for killing wizards who kill orcs, although Dolf does get his head cut off. Betrayed-spouse murder mysteries are not advocating killing adulterers—though it would be different if you named the victim after a specific celebrity and depicted the killer in a sympathetic light. As much as people who don’t like this policy, might wish that it were impossible for anyone to tell the difference so that they could thereby argue against the policy, it’s not actually very hard to tell the difference.
As much as people who don’t like this policy, might wish that it were impossible for anyone to tell the difference so that they could thereby argue against the policy, it’s not actually very hard to tell the difference.
I didn’t interpret CronoDAS’s post as intending to actually advocate violence. I viewed it as really silly and kind of dickish, and a good thing that he ultimately removed it, but an actual call to violence? No. It was a thought experiment. His thought experiment was set in the present day, while yours was set in the far future, but other than that I don’t see a bright line separating them.
It may not be be very hard for you to tell the difference, since you wrote the policy, so you may very well have a clear bright line separating the two in your head, but we don’t.
a story in which violence is committed against targets not analogous to any present-day identifiable people, or which is not committed for any reasons obviously analogous to present-day motives, is fine
I was unsure if people who do not currently exist might also be considered “identifiable real-world individuals”, if discussed in the context of futurism. Thank you for clarifying.
That’s an… interesting way of putting it, where by “interesting” I mean “wrong”. I could go off on how the idea is that there’s particular modern-day people who actually exist and that you’re threatening to harm, and how a future society where different things feel harmful is not that, but you know, screw it.
The ‘rules’ do not ‘mandate’ that I delete anything. They hardly could. I’m just, before I start deleting things, giving people fair notice that this is what I’m considering doing, and offering them a chance to say anything I might have missed about why it’s a terrible idea.
If you genuinely can’t see how similar considerations apply to you personally publishing rape-world stories and the reasoning you explicitly gave in the post then I suggest you have a real weakness in evaluating the consequences of your own actions on perception.
I approve of your Three Worlds Collide story (in fact, I love it). I also approve of your censorship proposal/plan. I also believe there is no need to self censor that story (particularly at the position you were when you published it). That said:
This kind of display of evident obliviousness and arrogant dismissal rather than engagement or—preferably—even just outright ignoring it may well do more to make Lesswrong look bad than half a dozen half baked speculative posts by CronoDAS. There are times to say “but you know, screw it” and “where by interesting I mean wrong” but those times don’t include when concern is raised about your legalised-rape-and-it’s-great story in the context of your own “censor hypothetical violence ’cause it sounds bad” post.
So if I suggest killing people in the context of futurism, that’s OK with you?
This seems to me like a deliberate misunderstanding. But taking it at face value, a story in which violence is committed against targets not analogous to any present-day identifiable people, or which is not committed for any reasons obviously analogous to present-day motives, is fine. The Sword of Good is not advocating for killing wizards who kill orcs, although Dolf does get his head cut off. Betrayed-spouse murder mysteries are not advocating killing adulterers—though it would be different if you named the victim after a specific celebrity and depicted the killer in a sympathetic light. As much as people who don’t like this policy, might wish that it were impossible for anyone to tell the difference so that they could thereby argue against the policy, it’s not actually very hard to tell the difference.
I didn’t interpret CronoDAS’s post as intending to actually advocate violence. I viewed it as really silly and kind of dickish, and a good thing that he ultimately removed it, but an actual call to violence? No. It was a thought experiment. His thought experiment was set in the present day, while yours was set in the far future, but other than that I don’t see a bright line separating them.
It may not be be very hard for you to tell the difference, since you wrote the policy, so you may very well have a clear bright line separating the two in your head, but we don’t.
I was unsure if people who do not currently exist might also be considered “identifiable real-world individuals”, if discussed in the context of futurism. Thank you for clarifying.