I can certainly ask, “were this Turing machine mind to be run, would it believe it were conscious?” But that doesn’t give me licence to assert that “because this Turing machine would be conscious if it were run, it is conscious even though it has not run, is not running, and never will run”.
A handheld calculator that’s never switched on will never tell us the sum of 6 and 9, even if we’re dead certain that there’s nothing wrong with the calculator.
I am not trying to say it would be conscious without being run. [...] I am trying to say that the computation as an abstract function has an output which is the sentence “I believe I am conscious.”
Now I think I agree with you. (Because I think you’re using “output” here in the counterfactual sense.)
But now these claims are too weak to invalidate what trist is saying. If we all agree that l-zombies, being the analogue of the calculator that’s never switched on, never actually say anything (just as the calculator never actually calculates anything), then someone who’s speaking can’t be an l-zombie (just as a calculator that’s telling us 6 + 9 = 15 must be switched on).
I agree that in order for the L-zombie to do anything in this world, it must be run. (Although I am very open to the possibility that I am wrong about that and prediction without simulation is possible)
I can certainly ask, “were this Turing machine mind to be run, would it believe it were conscious?” But that doesn’t give me licence to assert that “because this Turing machine would be conscious if it were run, it is conscious even though it has not run, is not running, and never will run”.
A handheld calculator that’s never switched on will never tell us the sum of 6 and 9, even if we’re dead certain that there’s nothing wrong with the calculator.
I am not trying to say it would be conscious without being run. (Although I believe it would)
I am trying to say that the computation as an abstract function has an output which is the sentence “I believe I am conscious.”
Now I think I agree with you. (Because I think you’re using “output” here in the counterfactual sense.)
But now these claims are too weak to invalidate what trist is saying. If we all agree that l-zombies, being the analogue of the calculator that’s never switched on, never actually say anything (just as the calculator never actually calculates anything), then someone who’s speaking can’t be an l-zombie (just as a calculator that’s telling us 6 + 9 = 15 must be switched on).
Okay, I guess I interpreted trist incorrectly.
I agree that in order for the L-zombie to do anything in this world, it must be run. (Although I am very open to the possibility that I am wrong about that and prediction without simulation is possible)