Did you have your sexual debut with a legal prostitute because you couldn’t make it happen in your organic social situation while growing up, for example, with girls you knew in high school or college? And did that experience somehow make it easier to develop the skills for having sexual relationships with women through dating?
It seems likely that a virgin male who patronizes prostitutes will wind up with an unhealthy transactional (rather than relational) attitude toward women. If anything, I would expect hiring prostitutes to exacerbate the john’s relationship failures.
It’s complicated. A lot of virgin guys have pedestalizing attitudes, and it means they are alredy transactional AND think the price to pay for the transaction is enormous, like you must be a world-champion hero and bring her the Moon for birthday to deserve her attraction. This is very visible on how many virgin guys fall over themselves to try to give favors to hot girls in order to try to win their attraction that way: they really think a man must work his butt off to earn the attraction of a woman, and that is a transactional attitude, and with a very high price.
Lowering the transaction price can be a step in the right direction, it can remove the pedestal and put them on more of an equal footing, basically it can replace the imagined goddess to be worshipped that lives in the virgin guys mind with a mere human, and that can make in his mind women more relatable and thus more able to form relationships.
After all the man is used to whoring out everything that is valuable in himself anyway (work, intelligence, creativity, muscles, shoulder to cry on etc.) so prostitution can be how a woman becomes relatable for men, it can create a more equal footing and thus a higher chance to form relationships.
However it is nowhere sure to cause this, it can easily confuse people by getting completely contradictionary signals (s.x with a hot woman not very valuable but her real attraction very valuable as a source of validation).
I want to emphasize that a transactional attitude toward relationships is itself inherently pathological. Someone with this attitude will always either feel resentful that they aren’t getting a better “deal” in the relationship or anxiety that the other person feels that way about them.
It’s complicated. A lot of virgin guys have pedestalizing attitudes, and it means they are alredy transactional AND think the price to pay for the transaction is enormous, like you must be a world-champion hero and bring her the Moon for birthday to deserve her attraction.
I don’t think this is really the problem for many long-term male virgins. Really, emphasizing the virginity aspect is a mistake in itself. If you’re forming stable romantic relationships, sex happens. It’s a secondary effect. A 25 year old virgin’s real problem is not that he isn’t having sex, it’s that he’s not forming stable romantic relationships which are consequences of normal social/psychological development. Patronizing a prostitute or trying to seduce a girl in a nightclub isn’t going to solve the underlying problem that has prevented him from normal social/psychological development. I think likely it will feed into the bitterness and futility they feel.
Mostly, the “pedestal” concept is part of a self-serving narrative that a lot of men who are suffering from social failures find appealing. They tell themselves their problem is that they are to respectful and nice to women, and women are cruelly victimizing them for that. This seems to be a completely pathological attitude.
A 25 year old virgin’s real problem is not that he isn’t having sex, it’s that he’s not forming stable romantic relationships which are consequences of normal social/psychological development. Patronizing a prostitute or trying to seduce a girl in a nightclub isn’t going to solve the underlying problem that has prevented him from normal social/psychological development.
Well, it’s complicated. There are several different problems that lead to one being a 25 year-old virgin and what works in one case need not work in another. Sex surrogates are a thing and have been used to help people overcome certain inhibitions and anxieties. I have heard anecdotes of some people getting a similar benefit from prostitution. On the other hand, others have expressed regret at stooping to prostitution. Caveat emptor.
Some people have more fundamental social problems or harbor toxic attitudes and for them it’s not likely to work.
Mostly, the “pedestal” concept is part of a self-serving narrative that a lot of men who are suffering from social failures find appealing. They tell themselves their problem is that they are to respectful and nice to women, and women are cruelly victimizing them for that.
I think you’re mixing it up with Nice Guy syndrome. The pedestal concept is the observation that a lot of these men have an unrealistic view of women as pure, virtuous beings, which ends up inhibiting their ability to form meaningful relationships.
This seems to be a completely pathological attitude.
Honestly, it’s hard for a virgin in his 20s to develop a non-pathological attitude without stumbling upon it through pure chance. What attitude he does develop is born of inexperience and distorted by the lens of whatever problem led to him remaining a virgin in the first place.
Is there some further info about the concept of “transactional attitudes in relationships” ? I tried to google it, little avail. I would like to know more about it, because IMHO some amount of transactionality is inherent (even in friendships, people will not give forever without getting anything in return), and it sort of makes sense from the different libido of the two genders that the major exchange is women giving sex, men giving something else, but probably too much short-termist attitude in that (expecting instant repayment instead of an ongoing mutual happiness goal with both getting what they want) is probably indeed unhealthy, but it would be good to have something more than opinions on it. At least a detailed analysis. My hunch is that only martyrs can be 100% non-transactional so it is probably something about flexibility and time-frame.
Interestingly, googling transactional vs. relational brings seemingly unrelated results, it is about how businesses can treat customers.
It seems likely that a virgin male who patronizes prostitutes will wind up with an unhealthy transactional (rather than relational) attitude toward women. If anything, I would expect hiring prostitutes to exacerbate the john’s relationship failures.
It’s complicated. A lot of virgin guys have pedestalizing attitudes, and it means they are alredy transactional AND think the price to pay for the transaction is enormous, like you must be a world-champion hero and bring her the Moon for birthday to deserve her attraction. This is very visible on how many virgin guys fall over themselves to try to give favors to hot girls in order to try to win their attraction that way: they really think a man must work his butt off to earn the attraction of a woman, and that is a transactional attitude, and with a very high price.
Lowering the transaction price can be a step in the right direction, it can remove the pedestal and put them on more of an equal footing, basically it can replace the imagined goddess to be worshipped that lives in the virgin guys mind with a mere human, and that can make in his mind women more relatable and thus more able to form relationships.
After all the man is used to whoring out everything that is valuable in himself anyway (work, intelligence, creativity, muscles, shoulder to cry on etc.) so prostitution can be how a woman becomes relatable for men, it can create a more equal footing and thus a higher chance to form relationships.
However it is nowhere sure to cause this, it can easily confuse people by getting completely contradictionary signals (s.x with a hot woman not very valuable but her real attraction very valuable as a source of validation).
I want to emphasize that a transactional attitude toward relationships is itself inherently pathological. Someone with this attitude will always either feel resentful that they aren’t getting a better “deal” in the relationship or anxiety that the other person feels that way about them.
I don’t think this is really the problem for many long-term male virgins. Really, emphasizing the virginity aspect is a mistake in itself. If you’re forming stable romantic relationships, sex happens. It’s a secondary effect. A 25 year old virgin’s real problem is not that he isn’t having sex, it’s that he’s not forming stable romantic relationships which are consequences of normal social/psychological development. Patronizing a prostitute or trying to seduce a girl in a nightclub isn’t going to solve the underlying problem that has prevented him from normal social/psychological development. I think likely it will feed into the bitterness and futility they feel.
Mostly, the “pedestal” concept is part of a self-serving narrative that a lot of men who are suffering from social failures find appealing. They tell themselves their problem is that they are to respectful and nice to women, and women are cruelly victimizing them for that. This seems to be a completely pathological attitude.
Well, it’s complicated. There are several different problems that lead to one being a 25 year-old virgin and what works in one case need not work in another. Sex surrogates are a thing and have been used to help people overcome certain inhibitions and anxieties. I have heard anecdotes of some people getting a similar benefit from prostitution. On the other hand, others have expressed regret at stooping to prostitution. Caveat emptor.
Some people have more fundamental social problems or harbor toxic attitudes and for them it’s not likely to work.
I think you’re mixing it up with Nice Guy syndrome. The pedestal concept is the observation that a lot of these men have an unrealistic view of women as pure, virtuous beings, which ends up inhibiting their ability to form meaningful relationships.
Honestly, it’s hard for a virgin in his 20s to develop a non-pathological attitude without stumbling upon it through pure chance. What attitude he does develop is born of inexperience and distorted by the lens of whatever problem led to him remaining a virgin in the first place.
Is there some further info about the concept of “transactional attitudes in relationships” ? I tried to google it, little avail. I would like to know more about it, because IMHO some amount of transactionality is inherent (even in friendships, people will not give forever without getting anything in return), and it sort of makes sense from the different libido of the two genders that the major exchange is women giving sex, men giving something else, but probably too much short-termist attitude in that (expecting instant repayment instead of an ongoing mutual happiness goal with both getting what they want) is probably indeed unhealthy, but it would be good to have something more than opinions on it. At least a detailed analysis. My hunch is that only martyrs can be 100% non-transactional so it is probably something about flexibility and time-frame.
Interestingly, googling transactional vs. relational brings seemingly unrelated results, it is about how businesses can treat customers.