Just a few reasons: Removing comments happens silently and without a trace. Such tools can be used by the establishment to quiet dissent. They can break existing conversations. We need more contrarians, not fewer. By removing examples of what not to do, we can no longer point at them as examples. Even if the comments were on the whole annoying, there might be interesting stuff in there worth responding to. Bans, more than downvotes, outright discourage participation amongst those who are in particular need of our help. Freedom of speech is valuable in itself, and its presence here is aesthetically pleasing.
The current procedure: (1) banning mode is only triggered by a user systematically accumulating some crazy amount of negative Karma quickly, (2) you get an explicit statement of banning-mode having been triggered, where others can appeal/discuss the decision, (3) you are free to continue participating if you somehow manage to produce the kind of comments that don’t get downvoted (so it’s more of a parole). In no other cases do the comments get banned.
Yes, and it’s carried out by Vladimir_Nesov and his ilk, which makes me not worry at all about the application in this particular case. I still needed to register my general objection, and I fear for our children’s children who might suffer under an oppressive fascist regime based on the Less Wrong moderation policy.
If this is where we are at, then please advise me of it so I can take appropriate steps to avoid getting banned.
I don’t think I got an explicit statement of banning mode having been triggered, but I want to be sure since there is talk of the ban hammer going down.
I am not trying to be contrary, I just am, so it comes out that way. I truly think that what I have to offer has merit. Of course, if the community does not think so then it is within their power to down vote me into non-existence. That is fair, as I have no right to force my ideas on another person. It just seemed that this would be a place to share ideas. Perhaps not.
The “statement of triggering the banning mode” is this. The steps to avoid triggering it (in your case, to get out of it) are here. This is the conversation where the procedure is getting established.
Removing comments happens silently and without a trace. Such tools can be used by the establishment to quiet dissent.
So let’s have a policy that banned commenters get to post a link to their anti-LW blog. We could list all the anti-LW blogs on a wiki page or something.
They can break existing conversations.
By removing examples of what not to do, we can no longer point at them as examples.
I don’t think anyone is proposing to delete past comments.
We need more contrarians, not fewer.
If I promise to be a high-quality contrarian, can we ban the next five low-quality contrarians?
discourage participation amongst those who are in particular need of our help
This is a good thing. LW’s positive impact is likely to lie mostly in building an effective movement, figuring out what issues are important, and pushing on those issues; all of these are helped by a high average level of rationality. LW’s positive impact is unlikely to lie in trying to fix whatever hopeless cases wander by.
Freedom of speech is valuable in itself, and its presence here is aesthetically pleasing.
I disagree on both counts, and I suspect your other arguments may be rationalizations springing from this value judgement.
Just a few reasons: Removing comments happens silently and without a trace. Such tools can be used by the establishment to quiet dissent. They can break existing conversations. We need more contrarians, not fewer. By removing examples of what not to do, we can no longer point at them as examples. Even if the comments were on the whole annoying, there might be interesting stuff in there worth responding to. Bans, more than downvotes, outright discourage participation amongst those who are in particular need of our help. Freedom of speech is valuable in itself, and its presence here is aesthetically pleasing.
The current procedure: (1) banning mode is only triggered by a user systematically accumulating some crazy amount of negative Karma quickly, (2) you get an explicit statement of banning-mode having been triggered, where others can appeal/discuss the decision, (3) you are free to continue participating if you somehow manage to produce the kind of comments that don’t get downvoted (so it’s more of a parole). In no other cases do the comments get banned.
Yes, and it’s carried out by Vladimir_Nesov and his ilk, which makes me not worry at all about the application in this particular case. I still needed to register my general objection, and I fear for our children’s children who might suffer under an oppressive fascist regime based on the Less Wrong moderation policy.
Oh, there’s no need to fear that: LWers don’t have children.
Upvoted for sheer hubris alone.
If this is where we are at, then please advise me of it so I can take appropriate steps to avoid getting banned. I don’t think I got an explicit statement of banning mode having been triggered, but I want to be sure since there is talk of the ban hammer going down.
I am not trying to be contrary, I just am, so it comes out that way. I truly think that what I have to offer has merit. Of course, if the community does not think so then it is within their power to down vote me into non-existence. That is fair, as I have no right to force my ideas on another person. It just seemed that this would be a place to share ideas. Perhaps not.
The “statement of triggering the banning mode” is this. The steps to avoid triggering it (in your case, to get out of it) are here. This is the conversation where the procedure is getting established.
So let’s have a policy that banned commenters get to post a link to their anti-LW blog. We could list all the anti-LW blogs on a wiki page or something.
I don’t think anyone is proposing to delete past comments.
If I promise to be a high-quality contrarian, can we ban the next five low-quality contrarians?
This is a good thing. LW’s positive impact is likely to lie mostly in building an effective movement, figuring out what issues are important, and pushing on those issues; all of these are helped by a high average level of rationality. LW’s positive impact is unlikely to lie in trying to fix whatever hopeless cases wander by.
I disagree on both counts, and I suspect your other arguments may be rationalizations springing from this value judgement.