I tried to estimate the likelihood two ‘random’ people match in chemistry and ‘infatuability’.
That assumes that people fall in love based on their intrinsic attributes. I believe that it has much more to do with how they interact with each other.
The idea was not to estimate the posterior probability of falling in love.
The idea was the prior probabilities I do not have (much) control over.
Checking for a match in chemistry is relatively easy. There even used to be social protocols to that end (involving e.g. handkerchiefs). Nowadays I goes the simplest approach would be to go out jogging together.
Checking for a match in infatuation also seems to be doable. Infatuated people can be spotted easily and I think I can notice early when I am falling. Maybe even speed up that.
Note I know that I’m sounding totally unromantic here. To make this clear: I do not intend to run a checklist on a date. That wouldn’t be a winning strategy either. It is more an analything getting a feel for the complexities involved. As I lack practical experience with dates I can use some spare time to resolve some statistical and ‘decision theoretic’ aspects that passibly couldn’t even be learned by simply doing dates. Sure I will not get around those.
Consider this: How many dates would you guess are needed before you find an acceptable match? Obviously this depends on ‘acceptable’. But I do have quite a lot control over the conscious ‘acceptable’ criteria. But much less so over the physical. What is the lower bound on the number of dates before you could e.g. expect a match in chemistry?
Knowing this could significantly alter my motivation to continue looking. If the number is higher than say 100 traditional dating would be out for example (at least for me as I’m not after sex for which a high match obviously isn’t required).
Checking for a match in chemistry is relatively easy. There even used to be social protocols to that end (involving e.g. handkerchiefs). Nowadays I goes the simplest approach would be to go out jogging together.
I do have a large dataset of person experience in dancing where I probably danced with >1000 different women in the last years. While I haven’t written down numbers I think the amount of data is large enough that the observations that come out of it aren’t due to chance but “real” patterns.
I think the amount of physical intimacy that a woman finds enjoyable would be a good proxy for what”s commonly understood as chemistry. In my experience that has a lot to do with my state at a particular day.
If you are dating a stranger that hasn’t already formed an opinion about yourself then I suspect the state that you have at the particular day has a lot to do with date success.
Jogging is probably relatively good as a date. It pushes the pulse of the woman up, and to the extend that I can trust the physiology textbooks that I read, a high pulse means that the woman is more likely to feel “chemistry”. It also matches my dancing experiences that high energy high pulse dancing leads to higher intimacy.
But you are dating a human that’s more complex than their amygdala which can be fooled into thinking there’s chemistry by giving it other reasons for making the heart beat higher.
In the end you don’t get a good connection to another person by treating them as a system to optimize. As far as my dancing is concerned I also don’t try to consciously push the pulse but instead try to choose the level based on music, my mood and how my dance partner reacts to what I’m dancing.
That’s even when I know that dancing at high pulse would also be good for my heart.
Knowing this could significantly alter my motivation to continue looking.
Instead of looking at the numbers, I would focus on making the activity of looking fun. If you have fun while you are looking, you are more likely to have success. Even if you don’t have success while you look, you at least have fun.
Invite woman to jog with you because jogging together is more fun than jogging alone and because making the commitment helps you to actually go out jogging. Be open that something more happens but don’t count on it and be fine with having good company while jogging.
But you are dating a human that’s more complex than their amygdala which can be fooled into thinking there’s chemistry by giving it other reasons for making the heart beat higher.
You got me wrong on both points. I know very well that humans are lots more complex than any simple scheme can optimize. And correspondingly I surely don’t just want to raise her heartbeat to fool her. Fooling anybody is no working long-term strategy. And we are talking loooong term strategy here. Remember: I’m a Beta optimizer. What I do want to optimize is the likelihood that we ‴notice‴ that we are ‴autentically‴ compatible. And I’m interested in how much resources I have to rationally allocate to physical (more dancing/jogging), psychological (more alpha/beta) and social aspects (more talking) aspects.
And correspondingly I surely don’t just want to raise her heartbeat to fool her. Fooling anybody is no working long-term strategy.
Emotional reactions do have meaningful long-term effects. If a girl feels good when she thinks about you that matters.
People do tell themselves stories to justify their emotions and those stories in turn strengthen the emotions for the long term.
If every times the woman thinks of you that thought makes her feel better the brain learns that there a connection between the stimulus of the thought and feeling better. That means the positive emotion get’s stronger when it reliably follows after the women starts thinking of you.
Getting a person to associate the emotion of love with a person might be more complicated than installing a phobia through a single traumatic event. On the other hand both are just emotions and there are processes that when a human goes through them, they end up with the emotional reaction to a stimulus.
The more I learn about how the human mind works the more I think that falling in love on first sight isn’t that much different than developing a phobia in a single experience. Once the emotional bond is there it has long-term effects.
It’s well above my ability to engineer the experience but I can see how people can fall in love on first sight in a way that allows a lasting relationship based on a few random variables being just right at a specific moment.
What I do want to optimize is the likelihood that we ‴notice‴ that we are ‴authentically‴ compatible.
I don’t think noticing that you are authentically compatible is the prime factor for a relationship for most woman. “Noticing” sounds like a very intellectual process.
And I’m interested in how much resources I have to rationally allocate to physical (more dancing/jogging), psychological (more alpha/beta) and social aspects (more talking) aspects.
I don’t see how those are different area’s. If you sign up for a dance course you have physical activity. You have psychological covered as you learn to lead woman. If you go dancing in clubs you also cover rejection therapy. Lastly dancing is interaction with woman so it’s also social and there nothing preventing you from talking with the woman.
Inviting a woman to go jogging with you is also at least physical and social but probably also psychological when you aren’t used to inviting woman besides your wife to go to activities with you.
And if you want to add social and psychological aspects to solo jogging just greet every person that you pass while jogging.
I don’t think it makes sense to see physical, psychological and social as separate things that you could allocate time.
I considered dancing but from my previous experiences I’d tentatively guess that even though your arguments are sound the likelihood to find a woman of the right kind there might be lower than elsewhere.
I don’t think it makes sense to see physical, psychological and social as separate things that you could allocate time.
Not allocate in the sense of doing 20% this (dacing) and 30% (talking) that. More like dancing has 20% this and 30% that.
Look for example nowadays dating sites are en vogue. I could come to the conclusion that matching expectations plays a large role and use e.g. okcupid as primary filter for matches. And then try to get a date with those.
Or I could conclude that physical attration is the critical path, then I might consider dancing because it has a high number of contacts. Or clubbing—even more contacts but even shorter time to evaluate. And probably even less really prospective candidates there.
One current idea it to take up part-time study on the local university.
OK. I have to get off this dry mode. This will be read and a turn off.
I’d tentatively guess that even though your arguments are sound the likelihood to find a woman of the right kind there might be lower than elsewhere.
What do you consider to be “the right kind”? I think there are quite a few well educated people who do dance. It might be that you have stereotypes about who dances that aren’t accurate. But of course if you don’t want to dance I don’t want to talk you into it.
I especially don’t want to encourage you to put your chips on any one card.
I could come to the conclusion that matching expectations plays a large role and use e.g. okcupid as primary filter for matches. And then try to get a date with those.
I don’t think there anything wrong with going on okcupid and trying your luck. Writing a profile and writing a few messages isn’t going to cost too much time.
Optimizing a Okcupid profile and writing optimal messages to get a date is however not my idea of authentic human interaction. I consider online dating to be quite artificial.
One current idea it to take up part-time study on the local university.
If you enjoy being at university I don’t think there anything wrong at it. However I consider dancing to be more physical, provide better psychological benefits and be more social than being at university.
OK. I have to get off this dry mode. This will be read and a turn off.
If you want to reply to something privately, feel free to PM. It’s certainly a topic where there are things that are better left unsaid in public.
That assumes that people fall in love based on their intrinsic attributes. I believe that it has much more to do with how they interact with each other.
Sure. Absolutely.
The idea was not to estimate the posterior probability of falling in love.
The idea was the prior probabilities I do not have (much) control over.
Checking for a match in chemistry is relatively easy. There even used to be social protocols to that end (involving e.g. handkerchiefs). Nowadays I goes the simplest approach would be to go out jogging together.
Checking for a match in infatuation also seems to be doable. Infatuated people can be spotted easily and I think I can notice early when I am falling. Maybe even speed up that.
Note I know that I’m sounding totally unromantic here. To make this clear: I do not intend to run a checklist on a date. That wouldn’t be a winning strategy either. It is more an analything getting a feel for the complexities involved. As I lack practical experience with dates I can use some spare time to resolve some statistical and ‘decision theoretic’ aspects that passibly couldn’t even be learned by simply doing dates. Sure I will not get around those.
Consider this: How many dates would you guess are needed before you find an acceptable match? Obviously this depends on ‘acceptable’. But I do have quite a lot control over the conscious ‘acceptable’ criteria. But much less so over the physical. What is the lower bound on the number of dates before you could e.g. expect a match in chemistry?
Knowing this could significantly alter my motivation to continue looking. If the number is higher than say 100 traditional dating would be out for example (at least for me as I’m not after sex for which a high match obviously isn’t required).
I do have a large dataset of person experience in dancing where I probably danced with >1000 different women in the last years. While I haven’t written down numbers I think the amount of data is large enough that the observations that come out of it aren’t due to chance but “real” patterns.
I think the amount of physical intimacy that a woman finds enjoyable would be a good proxy for what”s commonly understood as chemistry. In my experience that has a lot to do with my state at a particular day.
If you are dating a stranger that hasn’t already formed an opinion about yourself then I suspect the state that you have at the particular day has a lot to do with date success.
Jogging is probably relatively good as a date. It pushes the pulse of the woman up, and to the extend that I can trust the physiology textbooks that I read, a high pulse means that the woman is more likely to feel “chemistry”. It also matches my dancing experiences that high energy high pulse dancing leads to higher intimacy.
But you are dating a human that’s more complex than their amygdala which can be fooled into thinking there’s chemistry by giving it other reasons for making the heart beat higher.
In the end you don’t get a good connection to another person by treating them as a system to optimize. As far as my dancing is concerned I also don’t try to consciously push the pulse but instead try to choose the level based on music, my mood and how my dance partner reacts to what I’m dancing. That’s even when I know that dancing at high pulse would also be good for my heart.
Instead of looking at the numbers, I would focus on making the activity of looking fun. If you have fun while you are looking, you are more likely to have success. Even if you don’t have success while you look, you at least have fun.
Invite woman to jog with you because jogging together is more fun than jogging alone and because making the commitment helps you to actually go out jogging. Be open that something more happens but don’t count on it and be fine with having good company while jogging.
Interesting story of a math guy hacking okcupid to find love after 61 dates (which is about the number I’d expect):
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2014/01/how-to-hack-okcupid/all/
You got me wrong on both points. I know very well that humans are lots more complex than any simple scheme can optimize. And correspondingly I surely don’t just want to raise her heartbeat to fool her. Fooling anybody is no working long-term strategy. And we are talking loooong term strategy here. Remember: I’m a Beta optimizer. What I do want to optimize is the likelihood that we ‴notice‴ that we are ‴autentically‴ compatible. And I’m interested in how much resources I have to rationally allocate to physical (more dancing/jogging), psychological (more alpha/beta) and social aspects (more talking) aspects.
Emotional reactions do have meaningful long-term effects. If a girl feels good when she thinks about you that matters.
People do tell themselves stories to justify their emotions and those stories in turn strengthen the emotions for the long term.
If every times the woman thinks of you that thought makes her feel better the brain learns that there a connection between the stimulus of the thought and feeling better. That means the positive emotion get’s stronger when it reliably follows after the women starts thinking of you.
Getting a person to associate the emotion of love with a person might be more complicated than installing a phobia through a single traumatic event. On the other hand both are just emotions and there are processes that when a human goes through them, they end up with the emotional reaction to a stimulus.
The more I learn about how the human mind works the more I think that falling in love on first sight isn’t that much different than developing a phobia in a single experience. Once the emotional bond is there it has long-term effects.
It’s well above my ability to engineer the experience but I can see how people can fall in love on first sight in a way that allows a lasting relationship based on a few random variables being just right at a specific moment.
I don’t think noticing that you are authentically compatible is the prime factor for a relationship for most woman. “Noticing” sounds like a very intellectual process.
I don’t see how those are different area’s. If you sign up for a dance course you have physical activity. You have psychological covered as you learn to lead woman. If you go dancing in clubs you also cover rejection therapy. Lastly dancing is interaction with woman so it’s also social and there nothing preventing you from talking with the woman.
Inviting a woman to go jogging with you is also at least physical and social but probably also psychological when you aren’t used to inviting woman besides your wife to go to activities with you.
And if you want to add social and psychological aspects to solo jogging just greet every person that you pass while jogging.
I don’t think it makes sense to see physical, psychological and social as separate things that you could allocate time.
Indeed you seem to understand how my ideas go.
I considered dancing but from my previous experiences I’d tentatively guess that even though your arguments are sound the likelihood to find a woman of the right kind there might be lower than elsewhere.
Not allocate in the sense of doing 20% this (dacing) and 30% (talking) that. More like dancing has 20% this and 30% that.
Look for example nowadays dating sites are en vogue. I could come to the conclusion that matching expectations plays a large role and use e.g. okcupid as primary filter for matches. And then try to get a date with those.
Or I could conclude that physical attration is the critical path, then I might consider dancing because it has a high number of contacts. Or clubbing—even more contacts but even shorter time to evaluate. And probably even less really prospective candidates there.
One current idea it to take up part-time study on the local university.
OK. I have to get off this dry mode. This will be read and a turn off.
What do you consider to be “the right kind”? I think there are quite a few well educated people who do dance. It might be that you have stereotypes about who dances that aren’t accurate. But of course if you don’t want to dance I don’t want to talk you into it.
I especially don’t want to encourage you to put your chips on any one card.
I don’t think there anything wrong with going on okcupid and trying your luck. Writing a profile and writing a few messages isn’t going to cost too much time.
Optimizing a Okcupid profile and writing optimal messages to get a date is however not my idea of authentic human interaction. I consider online dating to be quite artificial.
If you enjoy being at university I don’t think there anything wrong at it. However I consider dancing to be more physical, provide better psychological benefits and be more social than being at university.
If you want to reply to something privately, feel free to PM. It’s certainly a topic where there are things that are better left unsaid in public.