The top 10% of humanity accumulates 30% of the worlds wealth.
20% of the humanity dies from preventable, premature death (and suffers horribly)
The proposition...
10% of the top 10% had all their wealth taken from them (lottery selection process)
They are forced to work as hard and effectively as they had previously and were
given only enough of the profits they produce to live modestly.
They lose everything and work for 5 years and recieve 10% of original wealth back
The next 10% of the top 10 % is selected
The wealth taken is used to ensure the survival of the 20% dying from preventable premature death.
In this scenario 1% of people are forced to live modestly in order to save up to 20% of humanity. No-one need to kill or be killed.
It would probably be reasonable to say the top 20% of earners would be against this proposal. The majority of the bottom 40% would be in favour. If your reading this you are likely on of the other 40% of humankind who can choose to support or reject the proposal. What would you say?
I am aware there are many holes in the proposition (unintended consequences etc) however this is a hypothetical that is based on a real situation that exists now that we are all contributing to in one way or another.
There is a major flaw in your proposal: the bottom 40% would not be in favor. Some of them would be, but there is a demonstrable bias which causes people to be irrationally optimistic about their own future wealth. This bias is a major factor in the Republicans maintaining much of their base, among other things.
However, to answer your question, while I would not favor your proposal, I would favor a tax on all of that top ten percent which would garner the same revenue as your proposal.
an increase in tax would only create an increase in product prices as the wealthy try to recoup their losses. This would adversely affect the very people you would be trying to help. The middle class whose support you wold require would also be affected negarive and the proposal would be then over turned.
Huh? You’re going to have to explain how increasing the tax (on the wealthy) would lead to increased product prices. They might try to recoup their losses. (Or they might decide it’s not worth working as hard for less reward—this is the usual assumption in Economics) But what’s the mechanism that leads from that to raised prices? There is an optimal price to set to maximize profit. Raising prices past that point isn’t going to increase profits, because the volume sold will be lower.
I guess I was thinking of necessities like food, water, electricity, medicine etc which the lack of is causinG the preventable premature deaths . Passing the costs of production on to consumers (including increases in tax) in order to maintain or grow profit margins is at the heart of our economic reality.
’Not worth working as hard for less reward” is the reason for the lottery for the top 10% of earners. Most of these kind of individuals would have the belief that this would be a lottery they would not win and therefore continue to work as they would. An increase for all the top 10% (tax) would only modify their behaviour and at least some proportion of the cost would enievitably be passed on to all consumers.
This is just too complicated a scenario to boil down to such a simple question. The efficacy of that kind of redistribution would depend on all sorts of other properties of the economy and of society. I can imagine cultures in which that would work well, and others in which it would trigger a bloodbath. I don’t think it’s meaningful to ask whether someone would support it “in general.”
I was aware of the many possible negative consequences such an action could have ( and the impossiblity of it ever having a chance of happening) however if there was a majority support across a society above 75% would the basic idea of sacrificing a small number of people to a modest lifestyle in order to save a large number of people be something you could support. Would a bloodbath be triggered with such support.
I pose the question and think its a meaninful question because it is in a “general” sense a decision societies and civilization as a whole ( and by extension all individuals) are making every day.
I spend $70 a month on entertainment. If I redirect this money I could save 7 people a month from a preventable premature death. We all make these decisions. If the question was a choice between throwing the fat person in front of the trolley of yourself in order to save people which would you prefer.
Also remember it is the “fat person” or wealthy that propels the trolley into these people to varying degrees.
Unless you’re willing to save expected lives instead of having a high chance of saving currently-existing lives, of course. (In which case (IIRC) the cost of saving around 8 expected lives is $1, by Anna Salamon’s estimate.)
The top 10% of humanity accumulates 30% of the worlds wealth. 20% of the humanity dies from preventable, premature death (and suffers horribly)
The proposition...
In this scenario 1% of people are forced to live modestly in order to save up to 20% of humanity. No-one need to kill or be killed.
It would probably be reasonable to say the top 20% of earners would be against this proposal. The majority of the bottom 40% would be in favour. If your reading this you are likely on of the other 40% of humankind who can choose to support or reject the proposal. What would you say?
I am aware there are many holes in the proposition (unintended consequences etc) however this is a hypothetical that is based on a real situation that exists now that we are all contributing to in one way or another.
There is a major flaw in your proposal: the bottom 40% would not be in favor. Some of them would be, but there is a demonstrable bias which causes people to be irrationally optimistic about their own future wealth. This bias is a major factor in the Republicans maintaining much of their base, among other things.
However, to answer your question, while I would not favor your proposal, I would favor a tax on all of that top ten percent which would garner the same revenue as your proposal.
an increase in tax would only create an increase in product prices as the wealthy try to recoup their losses. This would adversely affect the very people you would be trying to help. The middle class whose support you wold require would also be affected negarive and the proposal would be then over turned.
Increasing taxes would not work.
Huh? You’re going to have to explain how increasing the tax (on the wealthy) would lead to increased product prices. They might try to recoup their losses. (Or they might decide it’s not worth working as hard for less reward—this is the usual assumption in Economics) But what’s the mechanism that leads from that to raised prices? There is an optimal price to set to maximize profit. Raising prices past that point isn’t going to increase profits, because the volume sold will be lower.
I guess I was thinking of necessities like food, water, electricity, medicine etc which the lack of is causinG the preventable premature deaths . Passing the costs of production on to consumers (including increases in tax) in order to maintain or grow profit margins is at the heart of our economic reality.
’Not worth working as hard for less reward” is the reason for the lottery for the top 10% of earners. Most of these kind of individuals would have the belief that this would be a lottery they would not win and therefore continue to work as they would. An increase for all the top 10% (tax) would only modify their behaviour and at least some proportion of the cost would enievitably be passed on to all consumers.
This is just too complicated a scenario to boil down to such a simple question. The efficacy of that kind of redistribution would depend on all sorts of other properties of the economy and of society. I can imagine cultures in which that would work well, and others in which it would trigger a bloodbath. I don’t think it’s meaningful to ask whether someone would support it “in general.”
I was aware of the many possible negative consequences such an action could have ( and the impossiblity of it ever having a chance of happening) however if there was a majority support across a society above 75% would the basic idea of sacrificing a small number of people to a modest lifestyle in order to save a large number of people be something you could support. Would a bloodbath be triggered with such support. I pose the question and think its a meaninful question because it is in a “general” sense a decision societies and civilization as a whole ( and by extension all individuals) are making every day.
I spend $70 a month on entertainment. If I redirect this money I could save 7 people a month from a preventable premature death. We all make these decisions. If the question was a choice between throwing the fat person in front of the trolley of yourself in order to save people which would you prefer.
Also remember it is the “fat person” or wealthy that propels the trolley into these people to varying degrees.
IIRC, the actual cost of saving a life is about $100-$1000, but certainly not $10.
Unless you’re willing to save expected lives instead of having a high chance of saving currently-existing lives, of course. (In which case (IIRC) the cost of saving around 8 expected lives is $1, by Anna Salamon’s estimate.)
How does she estimate $0.13 per expected life saved?
Replying to another old post, but isn’t this suggestion just Omelas, except that you’re replacing the one child with the 1%?