It’s quite possible that we don’t disagree on any of these points and I’m just taking issue with your description.
That might well be the case. I don’t have much of an answer about how to address the ontic directly without ontology and view learning about how to more fully engage it a key aspect of the zen practice I engage in, but zen also pushes you away from using language about these topics so while I may be getting more in touch with the ontic myself I’m not developing a skill to communicate about it, largely because the two are viewed to be in conflict and learning to talk about it obscures the ability to get in direct contact with it. This seems a limitation of the techniques I’m using but I’m not (yet) in a position to either say it’s a necessary limitation or that we can go beyond it.
Telos/purpose/usefulness/will is my best way of talking about what I might describe as the impersonal animating force of the universe that exists prior to our understanding of it, but I agree something is lost when I try to nail it down into language and talk about usefulness to a purpose because it puts it in the language of measurement, although I think you are right that truth is often instrumentally so important to any purpose that it ends up dominating our concerns such that rationality practice is dramatically more effective at creating the world we desire than most anything else, hence why I try to at least occasionally emphasize that metarationality seeks to realize the limitations of rationality so that we can grapple with them while also not forgetting how useful rationality is!
Mod Note: this comment seems more confrontational than it needs to be. (A couple other comments in the thread in the thread also seem like they probably cross the line. I haven’t had time to process everything and form a clear opinion, but wanted to make at least a brief note)
(this is not a comment one way or another on the overall conversation)
Added: It seems the comment I replied to has been deleted.
That might well be the case. I don’t have much of an answer about how to address the ontic directly without ontology and view learning about how to more fully engage it a key aspect of the zen practice I engage in, but zen also pushes you away from using language about these topics so while I may be getting more in touch with the ontic myself I’m not developing a skill to communicate about it, largely because the two are viewed to be in conflict and learning to talk about it obscures the ability to get in direct contact with it. This seems a limitation of the techniques I’m using but I’m not (yet) in a position to either say it’s a necessary limitation or that we can go beyond it.
Telos/purpose/usefulness/will is my best way of talking about what I might describe as the impersonal animating force of the universe that exists prior to our understanding of it, but I agree something is lost when I try to nail it down into language and talk about usefulness to a purpose because it puts it in the language of measurement, although I think you are right that truth is often instrumentally so important to any purpose that it ends up dominating our concerns such that rationality practice is dramatically more effective at creating the world we desire than most anything else, hence why I try to at least occasionally emphasize that metarationality seeks to realize the limitations of rationality so that we can grapple with them while also not forgetting how useful rationality is!
Mod Note: this comment seems more confrontational than it needs to be. (A couple other comments in the thread in the thread also seem like they probably cross the line. I haven’t had time to process everything and form a clear opinion, but wanted to make at least a brief note)
(this is not a comment one way or another on the overall conversation)
Added: It seems the comment I replied to has been deleted.