If someone uses “cat” to mean “animal that barks”, should everyone then stop using “cat”?
You’re right, it’s more complicated. It seems like the solution here is to make word choice a coordination problem, communication being a major goal of language—if a million people use it one way and one person uses it the other way, the one should say “an animal that barks.” On the other hand if everyone has the same several definitions for a word, like “sound,” then splitting up the word when necessary improves communication.
This is subjective with respect to the word (if you don’t also specify how you’re defining it) but we stopped using that word that way anyhow—it’s objective with respect to the world, and that’s what’s important to how people act.
I can’t make any sense of that.
You complain that letting people specify what they mean by “right” makes “right” subjective where people diverge. But this doesn’t make the communication subjective if people replace “right” by an objective criterion for the world, so the bad stuff associated with just drifting off into subjectivity doesn’t happen.
Although I guess you could be saying that “right” being subjective is inherently bad. But I would suggest that you’re thinking about right_Peter, which is still objective.
If everyone has their own notion of right, we still have the Bad Thing that an action can only be allowed of forbidden, not Peter-allowed and Manfred-forbidden.
? So it’s impossible for two people to rationally disagree about whether or not an action is forbidden if the external state of the world is the same? I see no reason why “forbidden” in the moral sense should be objective.
Arbitrary rules enforced with threats of violence is not an optimal outcome for me. If you have an option other than
a) subjective laissez faire where serial killers are allowed to do their own thing
or
b) Tyranny
I’d be glad to hear it. I know I have.
Assuming you’re generalized that properly and aren’t seriously arguing the most egregious false dichotomy I’ve seen in weeks, I’m afraid that condemning the set of ethics based on social or personal consequences as “tyranny” amounts to dismissing an entire school of thought on aesthetic grounds. Forgive me if I don’t find such a thing particularly convincing.
As I stated: “I know I have” I don’t think a) and b) are the only options either. I don’t see why the decision to call force-based ethics “tryrrany” counts as “aesthetic”. I don’t see why you are so hostile to reason-based ethics. You and various other people seem to
think the rational/ojeciive approach to ethics needs to be dispensed with, but you don’t
say why.
You’re right, it’s more complicated. It seems like the solution here is to make word choice a coordination problem, communication being a major goal of language—if a million people use it one way and one person uses it the other way, the one should say “an animal that barks.” On the other hand if everyone has the same several definitions for a word, like “sound,” then splitting up the word when necessary improves communication.
You complain that letting people specify what they mean by “right” makes “right” subjective where people diverge. But this doesn’t make the communication subjective if people replace “right” by an objective criterion for the world, so the bad stuff associated with just drifting off into subjectivity doesn’t happen.
Although I guess you could be saying that “right” being subjective is inherently bad. But I would suggest that you’re thinking about right_Peter, which is still objective.
If everyone has their own notion of right, we still have the Bad Thing that an action can only be allowed of forbidden, not Peter-allowed and Manfred-forbidden.
? So it’s impossible for two people to rationally disagree about whether or not an action is forbidden if the external state of the world is the same? I see no reason why “forbidden” in the moral sense should be objective.
If they disagree and they are both being rational, where’s the objectivity?
Try explaining to someone that something they like should be forbidden because you don’t like it.
I agree, it doesn’t look like there is much in this concept.
Okay. “If you don’t stop, I will shoot you.”
But seriously, WTF? Is that supposed to be an argument that if something is morally forbidden to one person it should be the same for another person?
If you don’t go looking for it, you won’t find it. As is so ofen the case on LW, that door has been shut without even trying to see what is behind it.
Arbitrary rules enforced with threats of violence is not an optimal outcome for me.
If you have an option other than
a) subjective laissez faire where serial killers are allowed to do their own thing
or
b) Tyranny
I’d be glad to hear it. I know I have.
Of course. No one should murder. I’m surprised you find that surprising.
Rather than chastising me, why not explain how “forbidden” is objective?
Re: shooting people: it was a joke. The WTF was not with respect to shooting people. It was because your demand was a non sequitur.
For start: are you aware of various (googleablle) standard defenses of metaethical ojectivism?
Is there some other place where you have defended metaethical (or even moral) objectivism?
I am aware of various defenses and find them all thoroughly lacking, but I doubt I have exhausted even the common possibilities. Go for it.
Assuming you’re generalized that properly and aren’t seriously arguing the most egregious false dichotomy I’ve seen in weeks, I’m afraid that condemning the set of ethics based on social or personal consequences as “tyranny” amounts to dismissing an entire school of thought on aesthetic grounds. Forgive me if I don’t find such a thing particularly convincing.
As I stated: “I know I have” I don’t think a) and b) are the only options either. I don’t see why the decision to call force-based ethics “tryrrany” counts as “aesthetic”. I don’t see why you are so hostile to reason-based ethics. You and various other people seem to think the rational/ojeciive approach to ethics needs to be dispensed with, but you don’t say why.