legally, “intellectual property” doesn’t exist. There are a number of legal institutions collectively called IP, but the term IP is not a legal one.
Furthermore, copying, use without license, counterfeiting and such are legally “infringement”, not “theft”. Theft is legally a criminal offense, infringement is civil (lawsuits).
Using the term “theft” in the context of copyright infringement is political rhetoric designed to confuse the issue. Copying looks very different from the rest of category “theft”.
“Piracy” is also a stupid term {copy, theft and murder on the high seas} looks about as useless as {hitler, stalin, john smith}. Carve reality at the joints. “Copy” is very clear in what it means and has no political connotations.
If you would like to make a moral case about book copying versus book buying, do so without reference to useless categories.
Agree about the word theft. It is not helpful except as a dishonest ploy to conflate two actions that have not been agreed to be the same and have some significant differences.
Mostly disagree about the word ‘piracy’. Murder on the high seas is so different people should only confuse the two meanings as a joke. Maybe it was a bad idea to reuse the word initially but not now it is a common meaning. The only thing is it is pretty bad taste if someone you know has been kidnapped by pirates, but that is quite rare.
‘Copy’ is not quite right—that would include downloading Cory Doctorow’s stories from his own website, for example. These are deliberately made available by the author. We are really talking about copying that is neither authorised by law nor by the owner/creator. And probably not including forging bank notes, only copyright infringement.
ETA—I may have missed your point here, whether piracy in the sense of copying carves reality at the joints is also arguable. But it is a category I have in my head.
“Piracy” is also a stupid term {copy, theft and murder on the high seas} looks about as useless as {hitler, stalin, john smith}. Carve reality at the joints. “Copy” is very clear in what it means and has no political connotations.
Insisting on ‘copy’ is move similar in kind to insisting on ‘property’. It has the political connotation of moral acceptability. In some cases using a word that sounds like an acceptable thing isn’t much different to insisting on a word that sounds terrible.
I don’t think insisting on using non-moral primitives to describe moral situations is on the same level as confusing things with rhetorical terms, but I’ll think about it.
If you can’t make a moral case without using words that already have moral connotation, there probably isn’t one to be made. For example, it would be easy to make a moral case against breaking windows by appealing to economics, utility, opportunity costs, and so on. You would not have to mention “vandalism”.
Likewise in this case. If a moral argument can’t be made for or against copying without appealing to rhetorically tainted words, I don’t think we should be discussing the issue.
If I was really interested in making copying sound good, I would be using words like “wealth”, “produce”, “wealth replication”, “cultural commons” and so on.
I don’t think insisting on using non-moral primitives to describe moral situations is on the same level as confusing things with rhetorical terms, but I’ll think about it.
I agree, particularly in as much as the morally loaded terms can only be used in the moralizing rhetoric while the neutral terms can be used either as opposing rhetoric in the same vein or they can be used to discuss the issue and consequences at a low level.
Likewise in this case. If a moral argument can’t be made for or against copying without appealing to rhetorically tainted words, I don’t think we should be discussing the issue.
Which, of course, it can.
If I was really interested in making copying sound good, I would be using words like “wealth”, “produce”, “wealth replication”, “cultural commons” and so on.
This is one of the words I’d have been using to explain the intended benefit of laws preventing copying. “Property rights and enforceable legal restrictions” is the standard rudimentary solution to tragedies of the commons for good reason!
If I was really interested in making copying sound good, I would be using words like “wealth”, “produce”, “wealth replication”, “cultural commons” and so on.
This is one of the words I’d have been using to explain the intended benefit of laws preventing copying. “Property rights and enforceable legal restrictions” is the standard rudimentary solution to tragedies of the commons for good reason!
I thot that list up quickly. I’m not surprised some of the terms were wrong. (rhetoric is always wrong!)
Anyways, I was thinking of “cultural commons” in terms of people being free to mix and mash culture without getting legally harassed or having to pay lots of fees. It seems that “cultural commons” is at the core of the issue.
I’m going to go ahead and state this in case it is not clear: I may or may not have an opinion on this subject, and I do not intend to bring it into this discussion. My interest is in keeping the language and discussion rational as opposed to political.
‘Copy’ sounds neutral to me. It has negative connotations in some scenarios (‘got caught copying in an exam’, ‘All that the Chinese idiots do is copy American innovations’).
In fact, off the top of my head I can’t think of a single instance where ‘copy’ has a positive connotation.
legally, “intellectual property” doesn’t exist. There are a number of legal institutions collectively called IP, but the term IP is not a legal one.
Furthermore, copying, use without license, counterfeiting and such are legally “infringement”, not “theft”. Theft is legally a criminal offense, infringement is civil (lawsuits).
Using the term “theft” in the context of copyright infringement is political rhetoric designed to confuse the issue. Copying looks very different from the rest of category “theft”.
“Piracy” is also a stupid term {copy, theft and murder on the high seas} looks about as useless as {hitler, stalin, john smith}. Carve reality at the joints. “Copy” is very clear in what it means and has no political connotations.
If you would like to make a moral case about book copying versus book buying, do so without reference to useless categories.
Agree about the word theft. It is not helpful except as a dishonest ploy to conflate two actions that have not been agreed to be the same and have some significant differences.
Mostly disagree about the word ‘piracy’. Murder on the high seas is so different people should only confuse the two meanings as a joke. Maybe it was a bad idea to reuse the word initially but not now it is a common meaning. The only thing is it is pretty bad taste if someone you know has been kidnapped by pirates, but that is quite rare.
‘Copy’ is not quite right—that would include downloading Cory Doctorow’s stories from his own website, for example. These are deliberately made available by the author. We are really talking about copying that is neither authorised by law nor by the owner/creator. And probably not including forging bank notes, only copyright infringement.
ETA—I may have missed your point here, whether piracy in the sense of copying carves reality at the joints is also arguable. But it is a category I have in my head.
Insisting on ‘copy’ is move similar in kind to insisting on ‘property’. It has the political connotation of moral acceptability. In some cases using a word that sounds like an acceptable thing isn’t much different to insisting on a word that sounds terrible.
Good point, and I just thot of that myself.
I don’t think insisting on using non-moral primitives to describe moral situations is on the same level as confusing things with rhetorical terms, but I’ll think about it.
If you can’t make a moral case without using words that already have moral connotation, there probably isn’t one to be made. For example, it would be easy to make a moral case against breaking windows by appealing to economics, utility, opportunity costs, and so on. You would not have to mention “vandalism”.
Likewise in this case. If a moral argument can’t be made for or against copying without appealing to rhetorically tainted words, I don’t think we should be discussing the issue.
If I was really interested in making copying sound good, I would be using words like “wealth”, “produce”, “wealth replication”, “cultural commons” and so on.
I agree, particularly in as much as the morally loaded terms can only be used in the moralizing rhetoric while the neutral terms can be used either as opposing rhetoric in the same vein or they can be used to discuss the issue and consequences at a low level.
Which, of course, it can.
This is one of the words I’d have been using to explain the intended benefit of laws preventing copying. “Property rights and enforceable legal restrictions” is the standard rudimentary solution to tragedies of the commons for good reason!
I thot that list up quickly. I’m not surprised some of the terms were wrong. (rhetoric is always wrong!)
Anyways, I was thinking of “cultural commons” in terms of people being free to mix and mash culture without getting legally harassed or having to pay lots of fees. It seems that “cultural commons” is at the core of the issue.
I’m going to go ahead and state this in case it is not clear: I may or may not have an opinion on this subject, and I do not intend to bring it into this discussion. My interest is in keeping the language and discussion rational as opposed to political.
‘Copy’ sounds neutral to me. It has negative connotations in some scenarios (‘got caught copying in an exam’, ‘All that the Chinese idiots do is copy American innovations’).
In fact, off the top of my head I can’t think of a single instance where ‘copy’ has a positive connotation.