I think a lot of this should be blamed on Rowling, not Eliezer. Hermione is pretty much the same as she is in canon, and I don’t think we can fault him for not upgrading her.
Erm… a basic theory of MoR is that all the characters get automatic intelligence upgrades, except for Hermione who doesn’t need it and starts out as exactly similar to her canon self as I could manage, thus putting everyone on an equal footing for the first time. I presume you’re familiar with the literary theory which holds that Hermione is the main character of the canon Harry Potter novels?
Is that seriously what you were trying to do? I don’t think canon Hermione actually has an eidetic memory, for one thing. And canon Hermione is not as silly. Even early on she has the ability to sort of… roll her eyes and move forward, when that’s called for. Canon Hermione lectures but does not moralize; canon Hermione is not this romantically precocious.
What are the details about Hermione’s memory in canon? Isn’t there a bit about her remembering exactly what someone said, one of the other characters being surprised, and her explaining that she can remember because she listens?
“I’ve tried a few simple spells just for practice and it’s all worked for me. Nobody in my family’s magic at all, it was ever such a surprise when I got my letter, but I was ever so pleased, of course, I mean, it’s the very best school of witchcraft there is, I’ve heard—I’ve learnt all our set books off by heart, of course, I just hope it will be enough—I’m Hermione Granger, by the way, who are you?”
MoR:
“Do you have an eidetic memory, Hermione?”
Hermione shook her head. “It’s not photographic, I’ve always wished it was but I had to read my school books five times over to memorize them all.”
I always interpreted her as exaggerating in canon; MoR leaves less room for that interpretation but if you read it differently to begin with I suppose they’re not really as in tension as I thought.
She quotes textbooks word for word, all the time. It’s practically a running gag. I always assumed that Rowling thought that was a side effect of being smart.
Yeesh, I know she at least once remembered the right section and page, then read from the book, and I feel like she’s quoted books before, but darned if I can find it easily.
In Half-Blood Prince, when Snape is first teaching the class about silent casting, he asks if anyone can explain why it’s useful in combat. Hermione’s answer is identical to that given in the textbook, which Snape comments on.
Possibly an example. Are you are referring to this:
“Your adversary has no warning about what kind of magic you’re about to
perform,” said Hermione, “which gives you a split-second advantage.”
“An answer copied almost word for word from The Standard Book of
Spells, Grade Six,” said Snape dismissively (over in the corner, Malfoy
sniggered), “but correct in essentials.”
This is basically Snapish for “You got the only correct answer, but I still hate you. Had you given an incorrect answer, I would told you that you suck as a person. Thankfully, the correct answer to this question is in a schoolbook. As such, I’ll still use this opportunity to tell you that you suck as a person.” It does not seem to have anything to do with Hermione actually having an eidetic memory.
Yup, that’s the one. Only Snape would criticize someone for having the answer too right (although there are overtones of “Guessing the Teacher’s Password” here.)
(I never said that Hermione had an eidetic memory, only that she quotes textbooks.)
As a teacher-in-training, I feel that I should say that while I do feel utterly appalled at Snape’s pedagogical practices, there is a problem with reciting directly from the textbook.
That is, if you are quoting the textbook precisely, then how is the teacher to differentiate between remembrance and understanding? That is why teachers of more writing-oriented subjects often ask for the students to give their answer in their own words, to better gauge understanding.
There’s also the possibility of the book having too limited a viewpoint, something that Severus “The Half-Blood Prince” Snape would definitely agree with, but he probably was just being a terrible human being, yes.
Have you read Amends, or Truth and Reconciliation? It’s at least got a very smart Hermione who understands that she has to think about what she’s doing in order to defend what she cares about.
Is this seriously as close to canon!Hermione as you could get it? I assumed she got edietic memory to replace her canon intelligence, since everyone was getting the intelligence upgrade anyway. And the whole Bad/Good thing seems almost completely original to HPMOR, although it’s possible it’s a fanon thing I just haven’t come across.
All the adults certainly were, but what about the students? Draco was the same before Harry started corrupting him, Ron’s still an idiot, Neville is still a Hufflepuff, etc. Maybe Fred and George are a bit more awesome, and Zabini is an entirely different person, but aside from that Harry’s peers seem to have been kept to the same level. If Hermione were a sensible person, she’d probably outclass Harry just as much as she does in canon, and then the story would be Hermione Granger and How She Learned the Methods of Rationality and Became Omnipotent.
Are you referring to the sexual stuff? I don’t think that shows a difference in his personality so much as a lack of censorship. I could easily conceive of canon Draco making such comments, but them never being in the books due to censorship.
I’m referring to the competence. Canon Draco was a small-minded bully. Remember the Most Dangerous Student in the Classroom bit? Canon Draco made enemies every time he opened his mouth.
I think a lot of this should be blamed on Rowling, not Eliezer. Hermione is pretty much the same as she is in canon, and I don’t think we can fault him for not upgrading her.
I disagree on all counts. Hermione does have a silliness flaw in canon, but it’s much weaker. And Eliezer upgraded everyone else important.
Erm… a basic theory of MoR is that all the characters get automatic intelligence upgrades, except for Hermione who doesn’t need it and starts out as exactly similar to her canon self as I could manage, thus putting everyone on an equal footing for the first time. I presume you’re familiar with the literary theory which holds that Hermione is the main character of the canon Harry Potter novels?
Is that seriously what you were trying to do? I don’t think canon Hermione actually has an eidetic memory, for one thing. And canon Hermione is not as silly. Even early on she has the ability to sort of… roll her eyes and move forward, when that’s called for. Canon Hermione lectures but does not moralize; canon Hermione is not this romantically precocious.
What are the details about Hermione’s memory in canon? Isn’t there a bit about her remembering exactly what someone said, one of the other characters being surprised, and her explaining that she can remember because she listens?
She certainly has a good memory, but she does not casually memorize 100% of things.
MoR:
I always interpreted her as exaggerating in canon; MoR leaves less room for that interpretation but if you read it differently to begin with I suppose they’re not really as in tension as I thought.
She quotes textbooks word for word, all the time. It’s practically a running gag. I always assumed that Rowling thought that was a side effect of being smart.
I am having difficulty finding evidence of this. Could you perhaps give an example? (Ideally, a passage from the book.)
Yeesh, I know she at least once remembered the right section and page, then read from the book, and I feel like she’s quoted books before, but darned if I can find it easily.
In Half-Blood Prince, when Snape is first teaching the class about silent casting, he asks if anyone can explain why it’s useful in combat. Hermione’s answer is identical to that given in the textbook, which Snape comments on.
Possibly an example. Are you are referring to this:
This is basically Snapish for “You got the only correct answer, but I still hate you. Had you given an incorrect answer, I would told you that you suck as a person. Thankfully, the correct answer to this question is in a schoolbook. As such, I’ll still use this opportunity to tell you that you suck as a person.” It does not seem to have anything to do with Hermione actually having an eidetic memory.
Yup, that’s the one. Only Snape would criticize someone for having the answer too right (although there are overtones of “Guessing the Teacher’s Password” here.)
(I never said that Hermione had an eidetic memory, only that she quotes textbooks.)
As a teacher-in-training, I feel that I should say that while I do feel utterly appalled at Snape’s pedagogical practices, there is a problem with reciting directly from the textbook.
That is, if you are quoting the textbook precisely, then how is the teacher to differentiate between remembrance and understanding? That is why teachers of more writing-oriented subjects often ask for the students to give their answer in their own words, to better gauge understanding.
There’s also the possibility of the book having too limited a viewpoint, something that Severus “The Half-Blood Prince” Snape would definitely agree with, but he probably was just being a terrible human being, yes.
What about fanon!Hermione?
I don’t remember seeing an MoRish Hermione in any of the fic I’ve read.
Have you read Amends, or Truth and Reconciliation? It’s at least got a very smart Hermione who understands that she has to think about what she’s doing in order to defend what she cares about.
Haven’t seen it; I’ll take a look.
Is this seriously as close to canon!Hermione as you could get it? I assumed she got edietic memory to replace her canon intelligence, since everyone was getting the intelligence upgrade anyway. And the whole Bad/Good thing seems almost completely original to HPMOR, although it’s possible it’s a fanon thing I just haven’t come across.
All the adults certainly were, but what about the students? Draco was the same before Harry started corrupting him, Ron’s still an idiot, Neville is still a Hufflepuff, etc. Maybe Fred and George are a bit more awesome, and Zabini is an entirely different person, but aside from that Harry’s peers seem to have been kept to the same level. If Hermione were a sensible person, she’d probably outclass Harry just as much as she does in canon, and then the story would be Hermione Granger and How She Learned the Methods of Rationality and Became Omnipotent.
Yeah, exactly. Also Equally-Upgraded!Hermione plausibly ought to be smarter than the author.
If you think Draco is the same, you need to reread canon.
Are you referring to the sexual stuff? I don’t think that shows a difference in his personality so much as a lack of censorship. I could easily conceive of canon Draco making such comments, but them never being in the books due to censorship.
I’m referring to the competence. Canon Draco was a small-minded bully. Remember the Most Dangerous Student in the Classroom bit? Canon Draco made enemies every time he opened his mouth.
Alright, you win there.
MOR Draco had a course of education from his father that there was no evidence for in canon.
Yes, there is a causal explanation for why Draco is entirely different and much more powerful than in canon.