What I think is problematic is that some people are able to make genuine threats to get their way, enforcing compliance with their values and language and preferences and norms
One of my main points here is that I think we probably should call threatening behavior “threatening” and maybe “coercive” or “abusive” or whatever seems appropriate for the situation, and only use the phrase ‘frame control’ when the most relevant thing is that someone is controlling a frame. (And, maybe, even then try to say a more specific thing about what they’re doing, if you can)
And meanwhile, talk about “frame-whatever” when you’re talking about frame-whatever, whether that be frame-manipulation, or frame-curiosity.
without the other person feeing as thought they’ve consented
I actually think the thing that makes frame control a particular important component of abuse or coercion is it’s one of the tools that let’s an abuser make it ambiguous whether someone consented. Where Alice ends up feeling like they sort of consented, but something feels wrong about it and they don’t have good words for it and there’s a bunch of social pressure and they end up thinking ‘well… I guess I consented so I have to do this now...?’ but feel sick in their stomach about it.
(I think there are also ways to invoke this effect without frame manipulation. I’m not sure if there’s a good name for the generalize effect. ‘manipulated consent?’, ‘ambiguous consent?’)
One of my main points here is that I think we probably should call threatening behavior “threatening” and maybe “coercive” or “abusive” or whatever seems appropriate for the situation, and only use the phrase ‘frame control’ when the most relevant thing is that someone is controlling a frame. (And, maybe, even then try to say a more specific thing about what they’re doing, if you can)
And meanwhile, talk about “frame-whatever” when you’re talking about frame-whatever, whether that be frame-manipulation, or frame-curiosity.
I actually think the thing that makes frame control a particular important component of abuse or coercion is it’s one of the tools that let’s an abuser make it ambiguous whether someone consented. Where Alice ends up feeling like they sort of consented, but something feels wrong about it and they don’t have good words for it and there’s a bunch of social pressure and they end up thinking ‘well… I guess I consented so I have to do this now...?’ but feel sick in their stomach about it.
(I think there are also ways to invoke this effect without frame manipulation. I’m not sure if there’s a good name for the generalize effect. ‘manipulated consent?’, ‘ambiguous consent?’)