Ah, that’s probably not what the parent meant then. What he was referring to was analogous to sharing your burden with the church community (or, in context, the effective altruism community).
Weedlayer
Karma: 170
So if my morality tells me that murdering innocent people is good, then that’s not worse than whatever your moral system is?
I know it’s possible to believe that (it was pretty much used as an example in my epistemology textbook for arguments against moral relativism), I just never figured anyone actually believed it.
It’s also worth mentioning that cleaning birds after an oil spill isn’t always even helpful. Some birds, like gulls and penguins, do pretty well. Others, like loons, tend to do poorly. Here are some articles concerning cleaning oiled birds.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127749940
http://news.discovery.com/animals/experts-kill-dont-clean-oiled-birds.htm
And I know that the oiled birds issue was only an example, but I just wanted to point out that this issue, much like the “Food and clothing aid to Africa” examples you often see, isn’t necessarily a good idea even ignoring opportunity cost.
Obviously your mileage may vary, but I find it helps to imagine a stranger as someone else’s family/friend. If I think of how much I care about people close to me, and imagine that that stranger has people who care about them as much as I can about my brother, then I find it easier to do things to help that person.
I guess you could say I don’t really care about them, but care about the feelings of caring other people have towards them.
If that doesn’t work, this is how I originally though of it. If a stranger passed by me on the street and collapsed, I would care about their well being (I know this empirically). I know nothing about them, I only care about them due to proximity. It offends me rationally that my sense of caring is utter dependent on something as stupid as proximity, so I simply create a rule that says “If I would care about this person if they were here, I have to act like I care if they are somewhere else”. Thus, utilitarianism (or something like it).
It’s worth noting that another, equally valid rule would be “If I wouldn’t care about someone if they were far away, there’s no reason to care about them when they happen to be right here”. I don’t like that rule as much, but it does resolve what I see as an inconsistency.
I’m actually having difficultly understanding the sentiment “I get annoyed at those who think their morals are better than mine”. I mean, I can understand not wanting other people to look down on you as a basic emotional reaction, but doesn’t everyone think their morals are better than other people?
That’s the difference between morals and tastes. If I like chocolate ice cream and you like vanilla, then oh well. I don’t really care and certainly don’t think my tastes are better for anyone other than me. But if I think people should value the welfare of strangers and you don’t, then of course I think my morality is better. Morals differ from tastes in that people believe that it’s not just different, but WRONG to not follow them. If you remove that element from morality, what’s left? The sentiment “I have these morals, but other people’s morals are equally valid” sounds good, all egalitarian and such, but it doesn’t make any sense to me. People judge the value of things through their moral system, and saying “System B is as good as System A, based on System A” is borderline nonsensical.
Also, as an aside, I think you should avoid rhetorical statements like “call me heartless if you like” if you’re going to get this upset when someone actually does.
I’m not sure what point is being made here. Distributing burdens is a part of any group, why is religion exceptional here?
I have say I didn’t find this post particularly useful.
On my first reading, I was having some difficultly understanding what point you were making. You seem to use some words or phrases in highly non-standard ways, I still have no idea what some sentences like “Its fairly easy to make sense on a mid-level” mean. I get the general impression of a post by someone whose first language isn’t English, or who didn’t proofread their own work, and that makes reading it a chore, not predisposing me to like it. Cleaning the post up and using more simple language, progressing from one idea to the next in an obvious and logical fashion would make it much easier to read.
After reading it again, it seems like the point you’re making is that very few people have justifications for their beliefs, and thus, there’s not a significant difference between having a religious belief because your guru told you, and having a secular belief because a scientist told you. In other words, physics is basically a religion unless you can do math. The things you say in support of this argument (If indeed it resembles in any way what you are trying to say) are strange, to say the least. You seem to conflate the belief “If I eat I will not be hungry” with religious beliefs by calling them both “faith”. This seems disingenuous, like comparing the probability of winning the lottery and of not being struck lightning, and concluding both are “uncertain”.
Your post offers no real suggestions for overcoming our biases, which you assert all people have. You say you “eliminat[e] false beliefs, and replac[e] them with more empowering true beliefs”, followed by what seems to be an advertisement for contracting some type of service (counseling?). In other words, you say “everyone has false beliefs, you included, so hire me to help fix them and be happier”.
There may be something of value here, but right now I can’t see it.
This quote reminded me of a quote from an anime called Kaiji, albeit your quote is much more succinct.
Normally, those people would never wake up from their fantasy worlds. They live meaningless lives. They waste their precious days over nothing. No matter how old they get, they’ll continue to say, “My real life hasn’t started yet. The real me is still asleep, so that’s why my life is such garbage.” They continue to tell themselves that. They continue. And they age. Then die. And on their deathbeds, they will finally realize: the life they lived was the real thing. People don’t live provisional lives, nor do they die provisional deaths. That’s a simple fact! The problem… is whether they realize that simple fact.
Yukio Tonegawa in Kaiji
Ah, I understand. Thanks for clearing up my confusion.