(Not to be confused with the Trevor who works at Open Phil)
trevor
Karma: 3,988
Interestingly enough, this applies to corporate executives and bureaucracy leaders as well. Many see the world in a very zero-sum way (300 years ago and most of history before that, virtually all top intellectuals in virtually all civilizations saw the universe as a cycle where civilizational progress was a myth and everything was an endless cycle of power being won and lost by people born/raised to be unusually strategically competitive) but fail to realize that, in aggregate, their contempt for cause-having people (“oh, so you think you’re better than me, huh? you think you’re hot shit?”) have turned into opposition to positive-sum folk, itself a cause of sorts, though with an aversion to activism and assembly and anything in that narrow brand of audacious display.
It doesn’t help that most ‘idealistic’ causes throughout human history had a terrible epistemic backing.
If you converse directly with LLMs (e.g. instead of through a proxy or some very clever tactic I haven’t thought of yet), which I don’t recommend especially not describing how your thought process works, one thing to do is regularly ask it “what does my IQ seem like based on this conversation? I already know this is something you can do. must include number or numbers”.
Humans are much smarter and better at tracking results instead of appearances, but feedback from results is pretty delayed, and LLMs have quite a bit of info about intelligence to draw from. Rather than just IQ, copy-pasting stuff like paragraphs describing concepts like thinkoomph are great too, but this post seems more like something you wouldn’t want to exclude from that standard prompt.
One thing that might be helpful is the neurology of executive functioning. Activity in any part of the brain suppresses activity elsewhere; on top of reinforcement, this implies that state and states are one of the core mechanisms for understanding self-improvement and getting better output.
Your effort must scale to be appropriate to the capabilities of the people trying to remove you from the system. You have to know if they’re the type of person who would immediately default to checking the will.
More understanding and calibration towards what modern assassination practice you should actually expect is mandatory because you’re dealing with people putting some amount of thinkoomph into making your life plans fail, so your cost of survival is determined by what you expect your attack surface looks like. The appropriate-cost and the cost-you-decided-to-pay vary in OOMs depending on the circumstances, particularly the intelligence, resources, and fixations of the attacker. For example, the fact that this happened 2 weeks after assassination got all over the news is a fact that you don’t have the privilege of ignoring if you want the answer, even though that particular fact will probably turn out to be unhelpful e.g. because the whole thing was probably just a suicide due to the base rates of disease and accidents and suicide being so god damn high.
If this sounds wasteful, it is. It’s why our civilization has largely moved past assassination, even though getting-people-out-of-the-way is so instrumentally convergent for humans. We could end up in a cycle where assassination gets popular again after people start excessively standing in each other’s way (knowing they won’t be killed for it), or a stable cultural state like the Dune books or the John Wick universe and we’ve just been living in a long trough where elites aren’t physically forced to live their entire lives like mob bosses playing chess games against invisible adversaries.
So don’t think that if you only follow the rules of Science, that makes your reasoning defensible.
There is no known procedure you can follow that makes your reasoning defensible.
It was more of a 1970s-90s phenomenon actually, if you compare the best 90s moves (e.g. terminator 2) to the best 60s movies (e.g. space odyssey) it’s pretty clear that directors just got a lot better at doing more stuff per second. Older movies are absolutely a window into a higher/deeper culture/way of thinking, but OOMs less efficient than e.g. reading Kant/Nietzsche/Orwell/Asimov/Plato. But I wouldn’t be surprised if modern film is severely mindkilling and older film is the best substitute.
The content/minute rate is too low, it follows 1960s film standards where audiences weren’t interested in science fiction films unless concepts were introduced to them very very slowly (at the time they were quite satisfied by this due to lower standards, similar to Shakespeare).
As a result it is not enjoyable (people will be on their phones) unless you spend much of the film either thinking or talking with friends about how it might have affected the course of science fiction as a foundational work in the genre (almost every sci-fi fan and writer at the time watched it).
Tenet (2020) by George Nolan revolves around recursive thinking and responding to unreasonably difficult problems. Nolan introduces the time-reversed material as the core dynamic, then iteratively increases the complexity from there, in ways specifically designed to ensure that as much of the audience as possible picks up as much recursive thinking as possible.
This chart describes the movement of all key characters plot elements through the film; it is actually very easy to follow for most people. But you can also print out a bunch of copies and hand them out before the film (it isn’t a spoiler so long as you don’t look closely at the key).
Most of the value comes from Eat the Instructions-style mentality, as both the characters and the viewer pick up on unconventional methods to exploit the time reversing technology, only to be shown even more sophisticated strategies and are walked through how they work and their full implications.
It also ties into scope sensitivity, but it focuses deeply on the angles of interfacing with other agents and their knowledge, and responding dynamically to mistakes and failures (though not anticipating them), rather than simply orienting yourself to mandatory number crunching.
The film touches on cooperation and cooperation failures under anomalous circumstances, particularly the circumstances introduced by the time reversing technology.
The most interesting of these was also the easiest to miss:
The impossibility of building trust between the hostile forces from the distant future and the characters in the story who make up the opposition faction. The antagonist, dying from cancer and selected because his personality was predicted to be hostile to the present and sympathetic to the future, was simply sent instructions and resources from the future, and decided to act as their proxy in spite of ending up with a great life and being unable to verify their accuracy or the true goals of the hostile force. As a result, the protagonists of the story ultimately build a faction that takes on a life of its own and dooms both their friends and the entire human race to death by playing a zero sum survival game with the future faction, due to their failure throughout the film to think sufficiently laterally and their inadequate exploitation of the time-reversing technology.
Screen arrangement suggestion: Rather than everyone sitting in a single crowd and commenting on the film, we split into two clusters, one closer to the screen and one further.
The people in the front cluster hope to watch the film quietly, the people in the back cluster aim to comment/converse/socialize during the film, with the common knowledge that they should aim to not be audible to the people in the front group, and people can form clusters and move between them freely.
The value of this depends on what film is chosen; eg “A space Odyssey” is not watchable without discussing historical context and “Tenet” ought to have some viewers wanting to better understand the details of what time travelly thing just happened.
“All the Presidents Men” by Alan Paluka
“Oppenheimer” by George Nolan
“Tenet” by George Nolan
I’m not sure what to think about this, Thomas777′s approach is generally a good one but for both of these examples, a shorter route (that it’s cleanly mutually understood to be adding insult to injury as a flex by the aggressor) seems pretty probable. Free speech/censorship might be a better example as plenty of cultures are less aware of information theory and progress.
I don’t know what proportion of the people in the US Natsec community understand ‘rigged psychological games’ well enough to occasionally read books on the topic, but the bar is pretty low for hopping onto fads as tricks only require one person to notice or invent them and then they can simply just get popular (with all kinds of people with varying capabilities/resources/technology and bandwidth/information/deffciencies hopping on the bandwagon).
Stone Age Herbalist’s notes on ant warfare and slavery
I notice that there’s just shy of 128 here and they’re mostly pretty short, so you can start the day by flipping a coin 7 times to decide which one to read. Not a bisection search, just convert the seven flips to binary and pick the corresponding number. At first, you only have to start over and do another 7 flips if you land on 1111110 (126), 1111111 (127), or 0000000 (128).
If you drink coffee in the morning, this is a way better way to start the day than social media, as the early phase of the stimulant effect reinforces behavior in most people. Hanson’s approach to various topics is a good mentality to try boosting this way.
This reminds me of dath ilan’s hallucination diagnosis from page 38 of Yudkowsky and Alicorn’s glowfic But Hurting People Is Wrong.
It’s pretty far from meeting dath ilan’s standard though; in fact an x-ray would be more than sufficient as anyone capable of putting something in someone’s ear would obviously vastly prefer to place it somewhere harder to check, whereas nobody would be capable of defeating an x-ray machine as metal parts are unavoidable.
This concern pops up in books on the Cold War (employees at every org and every company regularly suffer from mental illnesses at somewhere around their base rates, but things get complicated at intelligence agencies where paranoid/creative/adversarial people are rewarded and even influence R&D funding) and an x-ray machine cleanly resolved the matter every time.
That’s this week, right?
Is reading An Intuitive Explanation of Bayes Theorem recommended?
I agree that “general” isn’t such a good word for humans. But unless civilization was initiated right after the minimum viable threshold was crossed, it seems somewhat unlikely to me that humans were very representative of the minimum viable threshold.
If any evolutionary process other than civilization precursors formed the feedback loop that caused human intelligence, then civilization would hit full swing sooner if that feedback loop continued pushing human intelligence further. Whether Earth took a century or a millennia between the harnessing of electricity and the first computer was heavily affected by economics and genetic diversity (e.g. Babbage, Lovelace, Turing), but afaik a “minimum viable general intelligence” could plausibly have taken millions or even billions of years under ideal cultural conditions to cross that particular gap.
This is an idea and NOT a recommendation. Unintended consequences abound.
Have you thought about sorting into groups based on carefully-selected categories? For example, econ/social sciences vs quant background with extra whiteboard space, a separate group for new arrivals who didn’t do the readings from the other weeks (as their perspectives will have less overlap), a separate group for people who deliberately took a bunch of notes and made a concise list vs a more casual easygoing group, etc?
Actions like these leave scars on entire communities.
Do you have any idea how fortunate you were to have so many people in your life who explicitly tell you “don’t do things like this”? The world around you has been made so profoundly, profoundly conducive to healing you.
When someone is this persistent in thinking of reasons to be aggressive AND reasons to not evaluate the world around them, it’s scary and disturbing. I understand that humans aren’t very causally upstream of their decisions, but this is the case for everyone, and situations like these go a long way towards causing people like Duncan and Eliezer to fear meeting their fans.
I’m greatful that looking at this case has helped me formalize a concept of oppositional drive, a variable representing the unconscious drive to oppose other humans with justifications layered on top based on intelligence (a separate variable). Children diagnosed with Oppositional Defiant disorder is the DSM-5′s way of mitigating the harm when a child has an unusually strong oppositional drive for their age, but that’s because the DSM puts binary categorizations on traits that are actually better represented as variables that in most people are so low as to not be noticed (and some people are in the middle, unusually extreme cases get all the attention, this was covered in this section of Social Dark Matter which was roughly 100% of my inspiration).
Opposition is… a rather dangerous thing for any living being to do, especially if your brain conceals/obfuscates the tendency/drive whenever it emerges, so even most people in the orangey area probably disagree with having this trait upon reflection and would typically press a button to place themselves more towards the yellow. This is derived from the fundamental logic of trust (which in humans must be built as a complex project that revolves around calibration).
This could have been a post so more people could link it (many don’t reflexively notice that you can easily get a link to a Lesswrong quicktake or Twitter or facebook post by mousing over the date between the upvote count and the poster, which also works for tab and hotkey navigation for people like me who avoid using the mouse/touchpad whenever possible).
Nitpick: a better way to write it is “the idea is there are at least two different ways...” or “major ways” etc to highlight that those are two major categories you’ve noticed, but there might be more. The primary purpose knowledge work is still to create cached thought inside someone’s mind, and like programming, it’s best to make your concepts as modular as possible so you and others are primed to refine them further and/or notice more opportunities to apply them.