psycho

• psycho 19 Mar 2009 7:35 UTC

  −16 points

  on: How to Not Lose an Argument

  The science of winning arguments is called Rhetoric, and it is one of the Dark Arts. Its study is forbidden to rationalists, and its tomes and treatises are kept under lock and key in a particularly dark corner of the Miskatonic University library. More than this it is not lawful to speak.

  I recommend looking at some Aristotle rhetoric and rationalist thinking are in no way divorced from one another. In fact part of being an effective rationalist is to make effective use of rhetoric in your arguments. Without going as far as becoming a sophist.

  Now as much as I enjoy Yvain’s religion bashing its really out of place and unbecoming of an educated person. Regardless of the my personal beliefs and the fact that I am sure this post will be voted down or deleted your anti-religion arguments are essentially straw-men.

  Let’s say you approach a theist (let’s call him Theo) and say “How can you, a grown man, still believe in something stupid like talking snakes and magic sky kings? Don’t you know you people are responsible for the Crusades and the Thirty Years’ War and the Spanish Inquisition? You should be ashamed of yourself!”

  Let us not forget that many of the great rationalists who’s shoulders you stand on, and many scientists who’s shoulders you stand on are or were Christians. This argument is fundamentally wrong headed you are claiming for atheists some moral high ground which isn’t theirs to claim. Ironically enough you share many of the same values as these Christians who’s ideas you spurn.

  Then as an aside there is this claim of all the evidence that points to the non-existence of God. The problem is that the statement “God exists” is formally unprovable. There is no mathematical proof that God does not exist. You can argue that the evidence points in that direction but straw-men of the opposing position does not do anyone any favors and does not make your case.

  If you wonder why atheists like yourself have trouble convincing religious people its because you start the argument assuming your opponent is an idiot and that understanding their world view is irrelevant. Unfortunately this is not the case the most effective way to deal with religious arguments is to debunk them from the inside out. This requires and necessitates you have a clear and accurate understanding of the opposing position. It also means that you don’t assume you opponent is an idiot.

• psycho 16 Mar 2009 21:53 UTC

  −7 points

  in reply to: PhilGoetz’s comment on: In What Ways Have You Be­come Stronger?

  I am not sure your 5 or 6 year-old logical fallacy discoveries in the Bible are much of a proof of being rational. I would imagine your actions that you have taken or are taking to achieve some difficult goal would be better proof of your rationality.

  Just a thought...

• psycho 13 Mar 2009 18:46 UTC

  −6 points

  on: Talk­ing Snakes: A Cau­tion­ary Tale

  To be clear I am not promoting religon here, but have any of you who are bashing Christianity ever actually talked to a real theologian? Or are all of your views of Christianity based on TV preachers and the common mob who don’t know anything when it comes to defending what they believe? Just as with any other area there is a barrier to admission like in physics you have to know the math otherwise you have really nothing to contribute. If you want to contribute to Christianity you have to understand the belief system and its reasoning and the average person probably doesn’t. The same goes for physics how many average people do think can actually solve the field equations? In Christianity how many of the people who claim to believe have gone to Seminary? Unless you are arguing with scholars of Christianity this bashing seems to me to be like finding some person who claims to be a physicist but can’t do basic algebra and then discounting physics because of that persons opinion.