Oooh, I think I can classify some of this!
A few weeks ago I met a fellow who seems to hail from old-guard atheism. Turn-of-the-century “Down with religion!” type of stuff. He was leading a philosophy discussion group I was checking out. At some point he said something (I don’t remember what) that made me think he didn’t understand what Vervaeke calls “the meaning crisis”. So I brought it up. He started going into a kind of pressured debate mode that I intuitively recognized from back when I swam in activist atheism circles. I had a hard time pinning down the moves he was doing, but I could tell I felt a kind of pressure, like I was being socially & logically pulled into a boxing ring. I realized after a few beats that he must have interpreted what I was saying as an assertion that God (as he thought others thought of God) is real. I still don’t know what rhetorical tricks he was doing, and I doubt any of them were conscious on his part, but I could tell that something screwy was going on because of the way interacting with him became tense and how others around us got uneasy and shifted how they were conversing. (Some wanted to engage & help the logic, some wanted to change the subject.)
So, about this, I think this is a typical case of status game esque ‘social cognition’. If membership in a certain group is a big part of your identity, the group can’t be wrong. (Imagine if you’re a devout Churchgoer, and someone suggests your priest may be one of many pedophiles). There’s an instinctive reaction of ‘well, church is a big part of my life, and makes me feel like a full, happy person, very good vibes… unlike pedophilia’ so they snap to defending their local priest. You may see the ‘happens in other places but not here’ defense. Social cognition isn’t a full proof dark arts happened, but it usually is a good indicator (since by nature it tends to be irrational). In this case it’s an atheist who bases status on being an athiest feeling their personal beliefs/worth are being attacked, and responding as a result. I’d read up on Will Storr’s The Status Game if you’re interested.
Another example: Around a week ago I bumped into a strange character who runs a strange bookstore. A type of strange that I see as being common between Vassar and Ziz and Crowley, if that gives you a flavor. He was clearly on his way out the door, but as he headed out he directed some of his… attention-stuff… at me. I’m still not sure what exactly he was doing. On the surface it looked normal: he handed me a pamphlet with some of the info about their new brick-and-mortar store, along with their online store’s details. But there was something he was doing that was obviously about… keeping me off-balance. I think it was a general social thing he does: I watched him do it with the young man who was clearly a friend to him and who was tending the store. A part of me was fascinated. But another part of me was throwing up alarm bells. It felt like some kind of unknown frame manipulation. I couldn’t point at exactly how I was being affected, but I knew that I was, because my inner feet felt less firmly on inner ground in a way that was some kind of strategic.
I think I can understand in general terms what might’ve happened. There’s a lot of ways to ‘suggest’ something without verbally saying it. Think of an advertisement having a pretty girl in the product (look at you, so fat and ugly, don’t you want to be more like us?). It’s not explicit, of course, that’s the point, but it’s meant to take peripheral instead of central route persuasion.
From a more ‘human’ example, I might think of a negotiator seating their rival in front of the curtains while the sun is shining through to disorient them, or a parent asking one sibling to do something after having just yelled at another. In all cases there’s a hidden message of sorts, which can at times be difficult to put into words but is usually felt as a vibe. I have difficulty describing it myself.
I think one I can describe might be the sandwich example (though this isn’t something I’ve seen in my own life). You have something important to talk about someone with, and they’re maintaining eye contact and ‘paying attention’, but they’re also nibbling on the sandwich and enjoying themselves. (indirect communication: This is not too big of an issue). Or maybe they put the sandwich down occasionally check their watch, and their half eaten sandwich (why are you making me wait? can’t you see I’m hungry and busy?).
I obviously can’t say what exactly they did. But I think vibe wise the effect was similar to some of the techniques I illustrated above. They did something, it wasn’t apparent what, for a desired effect. I’ll call it peripheral techniques of communication (as opposed to central).
I think the preacher example is similar. (implicit message: I’m attacking you, your tribal groups, your status, and offering you some free status right now for beating me in front of your friends. Why don’t you come give it a try?) What specific technique they used, I’m not sure, but I think it had the effect of communicating an implicit message (thus the reaction).
And yes, you’re right, none of these are ‘ultra-BS’, I consider them different techniques with a different purpose. I do think they are techniques though, and someone familiar with them can recognize them.
Hm? I’m unsure if I presented my point correctly, but my intent was to show that aid in general tends to not resolve the problems causing poverty, irrespective of cost/benefit. I think I brought this up in another comment, comparing it to painkillers. If your leg is broken a painkiller will probably help, cost effective or not. But your leg is still broken, at the end of the day, and the painkiller doesn’t actually ‘solve’ the problem in the same way a surgery and a splint would.
Do you take issue with this?
On that note I do believe many EA charities (givedirectly especially) does seem more effective than many traditional interventions (notably, giving corrupt governments money and telling it to spend on the people rather than the army). My stance is still roughly the same regardless though on aid. Effective or not it fails to resolve the root issue.