Also, don’t offer money. External motivators are disincentives. By offering $100, you are attaching a specific worth to the request, and undermining our own intrinsic motivations to help. Since allowing a reward to disincentivize a behavior is irrational, I’m curious how much effect it has on the LessWrong crowd; regardless, I would be surprised if anyone here tried to collect, so I don’t see the point.
hugh
Karma: 81
There is one boot process that works well, which is to contract an overseer. For me, it was my father. I felt embarrassed to be a grown adult asking for his father’s oversight, but it helped when I was at my worst. Now, I have him, my roommate, two ex-girlfriends, and my advisor who are all concerned about me and check up with me on a regular basis. I can be honest with them, and if I’ve stopped taking care of myself, they’ll call or even come over to drag me out of bed, feed me, and/or take me for a run.
I have periodically been an immense burden on the people who love me. However, I eventually came to the realization that being miserable, useless, and isolated was harder and more unpleasant for them than being let in on what was wrong with me and being asked to help. I’ve been a net negative to this world, but for some reason people still care for me, and as long as they do, my best course of action seems to be to let them try to help me. I suspect you have a set of people who would likewise prefer to help you than to watch you suffer.
Feeling less helpless was nearly as good for them as for me. I have a debt to them that I am continuing to increase, because I’m still not healthy or self-sufficient. I don’t know if I can ever repay it, but
I partially agree with this. Somewhere along the way, I learned how to learn. I still haven’t really learned how to finish. I think these two features would have been dramatically enhanced had I not gone to school. I think a potential problem with self-educated learners (I know two adults who were unschooled) is that they get much better at fulfilling their own needs and tend to suffer when it comes to long-term projects that have value for others.
The unschooled adults I know are both brilliant and creative, and ascribe those traits to their unconventional upbringing. But both of them work as freelance handymen. They like helping others, and would help other people more if they did something else, but short-term projects are all they can manage. They are polymaths that read textbooks and research papers, and one has even developed a machine learning technique that I’ve urged him to publish. However, when they get bored, they stop. The chance that writing up his results and releasing them would further research is not enough to get him past that obstacle of boredom.
I have long thought that school, as currently practiced, is an abomination. I have yet to come up with a solution that I’m convinced solves its fundamental problems. For a while, I thought that unschooling was the solution, but these two acquaintances changed my mind. What is your opinion, on the right way to teach and learn?
MixedNuts, I’m in a similar position, though perhaps less severely, and more intermittently. I’ve been diagnosed with bipolar, though I’ve had difficulty taking my meds. At this point in my life, I’m being supported almost entirely by a network of family, friends, and associates that is working hard to help me be a real person and getting very little in return.
I have one book that has helped me tremendously, “The Depression Cure”, by Dr. Ilardi. He claims that depression-spectrum disorders are primarily caused by lifestyle, and that almost everyone can benefit from simple changes. As any book—especially a self-help book—it ought to be read skeptically, and it doesn’t introduce any ideas that can’t be found in modern psychological research. Rather, it aggregates what in Ilardi’s opinion are the most important: exercise works more effectively than SSRIs, etc.
If you really want a copy, and you really can’t get one yourself, I will send you one if you can send me your address. It helped me that much. Which is not to say that I am problem free. Still, a 40% reduction in problem behavior, after 6 months, with increasing rather than decreasing results, is a huge deal for me.
Rather, I want to give you your “one trick”. It is the easiest rather than the most effective; but it has an immediate effect, which helped me implement the others. Morning sunlight. I don’t know where you live; I live in a place where I can comfortably sit outside in the morning even this time of year. Get up as soon as you can after waking, and wake as early in the day as you would ideally like to. Walk around, sit, or lie down in the brightest area outside for half an hour. You can go read studies on why this works, or that debate its efficacy, but for me it helps.
I realize that your post didn’t say anything about depression; just lack of willpower. For me, they were tightly intertwined, and they might not be for you. Please try it anyway.
RobinZ ventured a guess that their true objection was not their stated objection; I stated it poorly, but I was offering the same hypothesis with a different true objection—that you were disrupting the flow of the game.
I’m not entirely sure if this makes sense, partially because there is no reason to disguise unhappiness with an unusual order of game play. From what you’ve said, your friends worked to convince you that their objection was really about which cards were being dealt, and in this instance I think we can believe them. My fallacy was probably one of projection, in that I would have objected in the same instance, but for different reasons. I was also trying to defend their point of view as much as possible, so I was trying to find a rational explanation for it.
I suspect that the real problem is related to the certainty effect. In this case, though no probabilities were altered, there was a new “what-if” introduced into the situation. Now, if they lose (or rather, when all but one of you lose) they will likely retrace the situation and think that if you hadn’t cut the deck, they could have won. Which is true, of course, but irrelevant, since it also could have gone the other way. However, the same thought process doesn’t occur on winning; people aren’t inclined to analyze their successes in the say way that they analyze their failures, even if they are both random events. The negative emotion associated with feeling like a victory is stolen would be enough to preemptively object and prevent that from occurring in the first place.
However, even if what I said above is true, I don’t think it really addresses the problem of adjusting their map to match the territory. That’s another question entirely.
When you deal Texas Hold’em, do you “burn” cards in the traditional way? Neither I nor most of my friends think that those cards are special, but it’s part of the rules of the game. Altering them, even without [suspicion of] malicious intent breaks a ritual associated with the game.
While in this instance, the ritual doesn’t protect the integrity of the game, rituals can be very important in getting into and enjoying activities. Humans are badly wired, and Less Wrong readers work hard to control our irrationalities. One arena in which I see less need for that is when our superstitious and pattern-seeking behaviors let us enjoy things more. I have a ritual for making coffee. I enjoy coffee without it, but I can reach a near-euphoric state with it. Faulty wiring, but I see no harm in taking advantage of it.
To the contrary. If you pay volunteers, they stop enjoying their work. Other similar studies have been done that show that paying people who already enjoy something will sometimes make them stop the activity altogether, or to at least stop doing it without an external incentive.
Edit: AdeleneDawner and thomblake agree with the parent. This may be a counterargument, or just an answer to my earlier question, namely “Are LessWrongers better able to control this irrational impulse?”