the rights of others
What about the right not to be killed? I’d live up to 5-10 years more if society valued longevity as much as I do...society would be defacto responsible for my premature death
ernestdezoe
Karma: −74
What utility would future humans find in reviving cryonically preserved humans ? Besides a cryonically preserved person can’t fight to protect his/her own interest to have the cryonic facilities spared during economic crisis , wars , social unrests..… which would surely happen in the future , history has shown time and time again how those who don’t or can’t fight to protect their interests stand no chance of having their preference on the status of the world met (other agents would force their preference on the status of the world instead)
In other words, you know I’m right but don’t want to admit it.
Absolutely , I would never contradict a person so in love with this guy that he’d be willing to die for him , have fun at the front while sane people stay at home
You’re confusing Trump with Obama again.
No , you’re the one confusing a guy who has great temperament , diplomacy skills and the ability to laugh at himself with a thin-skinned scammer con-artist whose only goal in life is to fuck the next man in the ass and get away with it (think of Trump University and all his other scams).....Who is more likely to start a war?
Ok dude whatever you say...you might want to head here you’ll find many likeminded people..
I must say that it really warms my heart that there are people like you out there so that when this maniac brings us to some other useless war in the Middle East or South East Asia there would hopefully be plenty of suckers ready to enroll and go die for him so that mr.Trump would be able keep his immaculate record of never having to concede anything to the counterparty during a negotiation
Only white people would obscurantly try to say Trump is not a great candidate.
Oh god , we’re talking about the star of a reality show who had to decide who between Bret Michaels and Cindy Lauper would have been a better CEO for a company that doesn’t exist...
Also :
He went bankrupt more time than one could possibly count
Evades taxes ,
Has a terrible reputation in the construction business because he doesn’t pay people or unilaterally renegotiate terms
Has 3550 something law suits filled against him
Never donated a dollar to charity
Thinks Global Warming is a hoax made up by the chinese
Wants to build a 50 billion dollar wall which is a fucking joke just to channel that public money through his shady companies
Believes he’s above the law and sexual assault doesn’t apply to him because he’s a reality show celebrity
He’s as authoritarian as dictators like Putin and Qaddafi
Advocated for war crimes
Advocated for deportation
Threatened to jail his opponent
Threatened to kill journalists
Threatened to block the internet
Praised Putin for being a “strong leader”
Lies consistently
Advocated for violence against protesters
Spent 5 million dollars to have his bathroom plated in gold
Claimed that mexican immigrants are criminals and rapists
Didn’t rule out the use of nuclear weapons in Europe
Made ridiculous promises of bringing back jobs which would not be brought back
Is anti trade even though even a 5 year old understands how trade advantages everyone
Wants to pull out the Paris agreement on climate change
Advocated for a proliferation of nuclear weapons
Advocated for an increased defense spending
Advocated for an upgrade of Minutemen ICBM nuclear missiles
Is a demagogue who appeals to the lowest common denominator
Praised Qatar for it’s infrastructure built using slave labor
Used immigrant labor in each and every project he developed
Succeeded in bankrupting a casino
Completely destroyed a political party
Scammed people for millions of dollars with stuff like the Trump University
Wrote a children bool titled “Winners aren’t Losers”
He’s anti gay marriage
He was so in need of attention that he had to make up the lie of President Obama not being american
Before he was even elected he already severed relations with Iran
Didn’t debate in any of the 10 debates he participated during the campaign , he just yelled at opponents and made fun of them
He’s possibly the human being with thinnest skin on the face of the Earth ( remember this guy will be in possess of nuclear codes)
Used whistleblowers revelations to propel his campaign
Is anti abortion
Has been endorsed by various members of the KKK
He claims to be a great businessmen but in fact he has been outperformed by the S&P
Well , in that case the interests of the majority would prevail
And where did this abundance of resources and inequality come from? Does the dirt north of the Mexican border have somehow magically generate wealth, whereas the dirt south of it tragically doesn’t?
Having the most fertile soils in the entire world in the midwest , and having gargantous deposits of coal basically , also being such a large country and enjoying no customs duty or tariffs while the rest of the world had to deal with them and still deals with them today because of the political fragmentation on our planet
And yet for some reason people build fences around their homes all the time to stop buglers and it works reasonably well
You’re underestimating the utility of getting over a fence to rob a house vs getting over a wall to illegally enter the US...people would renounce and would try to rob some other house with lower defenses in the first case , they’d wear their thinking hat and find a way to circumvent the barrier in the second (as they already do with tunnels , boats and by simply overstaying in the US
Large numbers of Muslim youths cause a rape epidemic in Europe: meh.
Rapists will get prosecuted , plus they are getting bred out at a fast rate , plus muslim youths would pretty soon understand that is much more convenient to get a job , earn some money and hire a hooker to satisfy their sexual needs , so the problem is getting resolved literally by the minute
To the extent that is a problem Trump is also likely to crack down on that. However, the number of people simply crossing is much larger then the people overstaying.
Sure , god emperor Trump would personally put a sensor on every tourist who enters the country so that once their visa is up he’d send the feds to get them...
Are you honestly attempting to argue that a wall across the Mexican border will have negligible effect on the number of illegal immigrants that will get in?
In what exactly? Oh you mean in the territory that our ancestors took with violence from Indian americans first and brits later on ? Where there’s abundance of wealth and resources people would try to sneak in , that is the price to pay for ignoring the global inequality , plus even if you’re able to offset it with a stupid thing like a 50 billion dollar wall ( which you won’t given that any electrician and their brother has a 35 feet ladder and boats full of immigrants already depart from baja california) it would present itself in some other , arguably even more damaging form
and 2 libertarians so what is your problem , dude? They’re all 4 equilibrate people regardless of where they stand politically , the same could not be said for a guy who spent 5 millions dollars for having his bathroom plated in gold and sexually assaults women given that you’re so concerned about rapists
My ideal election would have been Paul vs Sanders vs Johnson vs Stein.....never supported Hillary
Which may explain why Europe is currently being flooded with Muslim youths who are creating no go zones in European cities and engaging in large amounts of rape and other crimes.
Immigration will have a net positive effect on the economy of these countries , criminals are criminals and just as always would be prosecuted , also rape is not as damaging as it was for a population because of birth control , morning after pill and abortion , rapists are getting bred out at a fast rate
You seem to be implying that’s a bad thing.
Ehm...channeling public money through your companies to build a 40⁄50 billions monstrosity (which would have astronomical mantainence costs) and make a huge personal profit at taxpayer’s expenses , all while immigrants just fly into the country and overstay their Visa and drug dealers smuggled drugs into the country with small planes as early as 1960s....this is a pretty bad thing
Make any conservative argument, in any context, and someone will be along to tell you that you are a nazi who wants to kill 600 million people.
You didn’t make just any conservative argument , you clearly claimed that you don’t care about other people (non american) welfare! It has been proved time and time again that throughout the history of our specie more humans alive and capable of contributing to the economy meant greater progress , improved quality of life , longer average lifespan...
Also this is not about politics , this can be discussed on LW , in fact we’re discussing about x-risks , altruism , best paths for human prosperity and so forth
In Egypt and Tunisia , where there was a grassroots movement to end the dictatorship yes , it turned out extremely well...the problems emerged in Lybia , where people would have not toppled Qaddafi if not for the massive western support
The whole “most variations from the equilibria are disasters”, only really works if you share my guy’s mania about valuing the other team’s welfare
You know , there was one other guy who wasn’t preoccupied at all about the other team’s welfare , that guy was John Von Neumann and were he able to have it his way he would have cold bloodedly killed 600 millions people between USSR and China in 1955 when US had B52s and thermonuclear bombs ironed out , while he could have used his intelligence and technical wisdom to deescalate tension with the ultimate goal of getting rid of nuclear weapons altogether . Irony of the ironies he died relatively young because of a cancer probably developed working on the bomb , exactly like his soviets counterparts...he’d have had more chances of surviving if american , soviet and chinese researchers would have been able to talk to each other and exchange informations on potential life saving treatments . Besides that I don’t even mention the damage that wiping out 600 millions people would have done to the world’s economy , the world would have been a very different place if Von Neumann succeeded in acting his personal version of the final solution
There is only one team and that’s team humanity , the prostate cancer which kills a russian citizen is the same identical disease which would take your life if you’re unlucky enough to develop one , so given that ever since we (almost) stopped killing each other over land we enjoyed a prosperity which has no precedent in the history of our specie and it is mostly correlated with the fact that there are more humans around to solve our common problems , so how about we keep it that way? Also how about we increase the number of humans around and we lift them from poverty so they’d be able to contribute to the economy and together find a solution to our common problems (energy crisis , diseases , aging , AI) ?
Also I agree with you that the “preserve every pulse” kind of thinking could lead to an impractical situation , but I also think that the correct approach for this issue is the “in medio stat virtus” approach being something like “If you create damages to society which are greater than your contribution to it for a continued period of e.g. 5 years” your life would not be worth preserving
the only danger to us is a nuclear war (meaning Russia)
Such danger only exists because Russian people are possibly even worse than americans at spotting con-artists and calling them out on their BS (europeans seems to be better than anyone else at doing this , maybe because they suffered so much in the past when they failed to do it) , so they praise and elevate Putin as a modern day czar because their life conditions sensibly improved with respect to the Yeltsin years , but they fail to see how much power and wealth is concentrated in the hands of their president who is able to casually steal 1 billion dollars from the State budget to build a private palace on the Black Sea . It is the support of Russian people which enables Putin to threaten the world with the apocalyptic scenario of a nuclear war , but as the Arab Spring proved such support is not destined to go on forever , dictators get only deposed when the people of that country collectively think that their lives would be better without him....if all the westerners who waste time every day watching Netflix or playing video games dedicated that time to talk with their Russian counterparts through the internet , provide them information which would not be otherwise available given the regime’s propaganda and yes , even send them 0.5BTC whenever they can to show support and compassion a dictator like Putin would be deposed and hanged within 6 months , much to the relief of people living in adjacent countries (whose suffering you seem to ignore and perhaps more importantly role in the world’s economy you seem to ignore) and the rest of the world
Given our invincible military
This honestly seems a phrase straight off a propaganda poster , are you even aware of the costs in terms of brainpower and capital which are wasted every year on the military? Think of what could be accomplished if such resources were redirected towards research and basic research ( AI , FAI , WBE , nuclear fusion , brain understanding , consciousness understanding..)
To spell it out: I don’t share (and I don’t think my side shares), Yudkowski’s fetish for saving every life. When he talks about malaria nets as the most effective way to save lives, I am nodding, but I am nodding along to the idea of finding the most effective way to get what you want done, done. Not at the idea that I’ve got a duty to preserve every pulse.
So are you seriously claiming that you can’t see the correlation between number of humans alive on the Earth and average quality of life and progress achieved by our specie?
Putin will thug around his neighbors
Yeah right , because Putin putting his hands on the mineral rich and fertile soils of Ukraine is a totally desirable outcome for the world’s economy
Yes, electing Hillary Clinton would have been a better way to ensure world prosperity than electing Donald Trump would. That is not what we are trying to do. We want to ensure American prosperity
And that , my friend is the line of thinking which caused the outbreak of every war in the history of our specie , also electing a guy who spent 5 millions dollars to have his bathroom completely gold plated seems the best way to ensure american prosperity /s , also you continuously mention Putin , Trump is the presidential candidate who resembles him the most , except for maybe one thing that would sure impress the donald the first time he’ll meet him , Putin speaks a fluent english with a marked BBC accent , you could almost say that between the 2 , the Russian from St. Petersburg has the better words
Trump will (probably not) build a wall between us and Mexico
Mark my words he will , and he will channel public money through his companies in order to build it , he’ll try to pull it off in the 2 years before the midterm elections...that would be something very Putinesque of him (see the similarities between the two are recurrent )
So he went over to the dark side...let’s hope that he’d be able to contrast that war mongering general
Trump’s victory calls for serious reflections on how people see the government as the enabler of change in environmental policies :
No meaningful change is ever enforced from the top , we should start dedicating a bit of our time and money to convince those who see their financial future jeopardized by the policies on climate change (e.g. coal and oil&gas workers) and not just talk and discuss with people who already agree with us . If we fail to do this we’d have a situation where people would feel threatened , abandoned and full of resentments towards those who forced a change upon them at their expenses , these are the sentiments which enabled the surge of populism across the political scene in 2016 , these are the sentiments which enabled a buffoon like Trump to become the US president
Also if we succeed in doing this we should take our responsibilities as 1st world countries to do the heavy lifting in reducing CO2 emissions given how developing countries heavily rely on fossil fuels to power their already weak infrastructure
Finally in 2016 , where people can go Google what their favorite celebrity ate a year ago , so called environmental activists like Leonardo Di Caprio are counterproductive given that clearly they are not willing to give up their jet set resource burning lifestyle , when even a 100% vegan environmentalist like me is enraged by his hypocrisy , how can we even think of convincing those who put economic prosperity and more specifically their economic prosperity above anything else?
Are we now judging people in here basing our considerations on the size of their wallet and their success with the opposite sex?
If that’s the case I should point out that Pablo Escobar at one point was worth 35 billions dollars , was more powerful than many countries PM and presidents and had sex with something like 2000 women …also Putin is allegedly worth 200 billions and he too beds a different mistress every day , plus (differently from Trump) he has the power and authority to singlehandedly force a nuclear strike
Donald Trump is a total buffoon , he’s not very bright and had a jumpstart in life , he’d been better off by buying bonds given that he’s been outperformed by the S&P , many of his businesses have failed and he was somehow spared a bankruptcy which would have left him without a dollar to buy an hot dog , he excels in social skills and persuasion (but again even does a con man) ; but somehow these seems to be attributes which are disproportionately linked to success in the US compared with any other 1st world country , maybe americans lack the capabilities to recognize con men and call them out on their BS ? Remember how characters like Jordan Belfort and Bernie Madoff acted undisturbed for years before getting caught , plus they did it in NYC , not Oklahoma or Alabama
If you want to see a guy who wins consistently if your definition of winning is somehow related to societal status , money and reproductive success (which is absolutely a stupid and primitive way of defining it) here’s your winner
EDIT : Mistyped the word buffoon , please forgive me I don’t quite have the words , the best words
Isn’t that a bit excessive reaction for a rationality forum?
But are they taken online or not? Some women , especially self proclaimed feminists who voted for Trump would never tell that in front of a microphone
What about laws in place to punish those who run over people and kill them because their goal is to get wherever they need to go as fast as possible ? We punish these people..also we punish those who drive recklessly because they harm society as a whole by pursuing their goal