dutz, as paintings, yes, they weren’t any good. But still, much better than genocide.
Violence may convince your opponent it isn’t worth arguing with you. But it will convince your audience that you’re an emotional, impulsive, irrational person, no matter how right you were.
People can see someone as less than human. Until they see the getting beaten with fire hoses, and then pity sinks in.
I think in the original context, Eliezer was talking about violence commited by a society/sect/police force against an individual.
I happen to believe a swift punch in the jaw is justified in rare cases. But I can show you a few people who think beating an uppity woman is the best way to put her in her place.
You have to draw the line somewhere, and I think Buzz would agree. Sometimes, you’re going to have to step over that line, so let’s put it as far back as we can.
guts, I would prefer butter to a slap in the face anyday. I’m sure you would, too.
The point I was making about the paintings, (in the tradition of the late Mr. Vonnegut,) is that Hitler was a person. Being a person, he should’ve stuck to painting, rather than violence. We should encourage more video games where people make art rather than shooting things. We should be less upset about children seeing naked people and more upset about them seeing dead ones.
In terms of a punch in the jaw:
We’d all agree that beating a child is wrong, and that Mike Tyson isn’t a rationalist, on any level. You don’t win an argument with a punch in the jaw, you end discussion. I’ve taken a beating or two for refusing to alter my beliefs, and it didn’t influence my idea any. I’m sure the arm chair theorist took the punch in the jaw as confirmation that Mr. Aldrin was a mongoloid, incapable of operation of anything more complex than a tricycle.
A punch in the jaw is a reaction, and I’m sure Mr. Aldrin didn’t debate the instinct. His greatest accomplishment was being questioned by an arm chair theorist. A punch in the jaw was, in hindsight, not a great action worthy of applause, but certainly understandable.
Again, Eliezer’s original point was talking about large groups, (Catholics, Nazi’s, Communists, Puritans, Islamic extremists… etc) committing violence, not a sock in the jaw, but a gas chamber. I still agree with him that if you have to kill and torture to defend your idea, it’s probably not a good idea in the first place, or the execution isn’t working out well.
JT, I think someone who’s wrong, stupid, and rude deserves more sympathy than someone who’s calm, open-minded, and polite. The nice person probably has more friends, and a better relationship with his family. The arrogant tend to be terribly unsatisfied, and feel inferior, so they overcompensate.
A punch in the jaw? How about a hug? Or a respectful handshake? Are you any better than the rude and uninformed if your first reaction is to wonder if you should hit them in the face?