People who care about that kind of thing usually think it counts as a Name, but don’t think there’s anything wrong with typing it (though it’s still best avoided in case someone prints out the page). Trying to write it makes me squirm horribly and if I absolutely need the whole word I’ll copy-paste it. I can totally write small-g “god” though, to talk about deities in general (or as a polite cuss). I feel absolutely silly about it, I’m an atheist and I’m not even Jewish (though I do have a weird cultural-appropriatey obsession). Oh well, everyone has weird phobias.
Thought experiment: suppose I were to tell you that every time I see you write out “G-d”, I responded by writing “God”, or perhaps even “YHWH”, on a piece of paper, 10 times. Would that knowledge alter your behavior? How about if I instead (or additionally) spoke it aloud?
It feels exactly equivalent to telling me that every time you see me turn down licorice, you’ll eat ten wheels of it. It would bother me slightly if you normally avoided taking the Name in vain (and you didn’t, like, consider it a sacred duty to annoy me), but not to the point I’d change my behavior.
Which I didn’t know, but makes sense in hindsight (as hindsight is wont to do); sacredness is a hobby, and I might be miffed at fellow enthusiasts Doing It Wrong, but not at people who prefer fishing or something.
What???!!! Are you suggesting that I’m actually planning on conducting the proposed thought experiment? Actually, physically, getting a piece of paper and writing out the words in question? I assure you, this is not the case. I don’t even have any blank paper in my home—this is the 21st century after all.
This is a thought experiment I’m proposing, in order to help me better understand MixedNuts’ mental model. No different from proposing a thought experiment involving dust motes and eternal torture. Are you saying that Eliezer should be punished for considering such hypothetical situations, a trillion times over?
What???!!! Are you suggesting that I’m actually planning on conducting the proposed thought experiment? Actually, physically, getting a piece of paper and writing out the words in question? I assure you, this is not the case. I don’t even have any blank paper in my home—this is the 21st century after all.
Yes I know, and my comment was how I would respond in your thought experiment.
(Edited: the first version accidentally implied the opposite of what I intended.)
??? Ok, skipping over the bizarre irrationality of your making that assumption in the first place, now that I’ve clarified the situation and told you in no uncertain terms that I am NOT planning on conducting such an experiment (other than inside my head), are you saying you think I’m lying? You sincerely believe that I literally have a pen and paper in front of me, and I’m going through MixedNuts’s comment history and writing out sacred names for each occurance of “G-d”? Do you actually believe that? Or are you pulling our collective leg?
In the event that you do actually believe that, what kind of evidence might I provide that would change your mind? Or is this an unfalsifiable belief?
I wonder if you really wouldn’t respond to blackmail if the stakes were high and you’d actually lose something critical. “I don’t respond to blackmail” usually means “I claim social dominance in this conflict”.
Not in general, but in this particular instance, the error is in seeing any “conflict” whatsoever. This was not intended as a challenge, or a dick-waving contest, just a sincerely proposed thought experiment in order to help me better understand MixedNuts’ mental model.
Not in general, but in this particular instance, the error is in seeing any “conflict” whatsoever. This was not intended as a challenge, or a dick-waving contest, just a sincerely proposed thought experiment in order to help me better understand MixedNuts’ mental model.
(My response was intended to be within the thought experiment mode, not external. I took Eugine’s as being within that mode too.)
I wonder if you really wouldn’t respond to blackmail if the stakes were high and you’d actually lose something critical.
“In practice, virtually everyone seems to judge a large matter of principle to be more important than a small one of pragmatics, and vice versa — everyone except philosophers, that is.”
(Gary Drescher, Good and Real)
Yes, which is why I explicitly labled it as only a thought experiment.
This seems to me to be entirely in keeping with the LW tradition of thought experiments regarding dust particles and eternal torture.… by posing such a question, you’re not actually threatening to torture anybody.
I don’t think it’s quite the same. I have these sinking moments of “Whew, thank… wait, thank nothing” and “Oh please… crap, nobody’s listening”, but here I don’t feel like I’m being disrespectful to Sky Dude (and if I cared I wouldn’t call him Sky Dude). The emotion is clearly associated with the word, and doesn’t go “whoops, looks like I have no referent” upon reflection.
What seems to be behind it is a feeling that if I did that, I would be practicing my religion wrong, and I like my religion. It’s a jumble of things that give me an oxytocin kick, mostly consciously picked up, but it grows organically and sometimes plucks new dogma out of the environment. (“From now on Ruby Tuesday counts as religious music. Any questions?”) I can’t easily shed a part, it has to stop feeling sacred of its own accord.
People on this site already give too much upvotes, and too little downvotes. By which I mean that if anyone writes a lot of comments, their total karma is most likely to be positive, even if the comments are mostly useless (as long as they are not offensive, or don’t break some local taboo). People can build a high total karma just by posting a lot, because one thousand comments with average karma of 1 provide more total karma than e.g. twenty comments with 20 karma each. But which of those two would you prefer as a reader, assuming that your goal is not to procrastinate on LW for hours a day?
Every comment written has a cost—the time people spend reading that comment. So a neutral comment (not helpful, not harmful) has a slightly negative value, if we could measure that precisely. One such comment does not make big harm. Hundred such comments, daily, from different users… that’s a different thing. Each comment should pay the price of time it takes to read it, or be downvoted.
People already hesitate to downvote, because expressing a negative opinion about something connected with other person feels like starting an unnecessary conflict. This is an instinct we should try to overcome. Asking for an explanation for a single downvote escalates the conflict. I think it is OK to ask if a seemingly innocent comment gets downvoted to −10, because then there is something to explain. But a single downvote or two, that does not need an explanation. Someone probably just did not think the comment was improving the quality of a discussion.
People can build a high total karma just by posting a lot,
So what?
because one thousand comments with average karma of 1 provide more total karma than e.g. twenty comments with 20 karma each. But which of those two would you prefer as a reader, assuming that your goal is not to procrastinate on LW for hours a day?
When I prefer the latter, I use stuff like Top Comments Today/This Week/whatever, setting my preferences to “Display 10 comments by default” and sorting comments by “Top”, etc. The presence of lots of comments at +1 doesn’t bother me that much. (Also, just because a comment is at +20 doesn’t always mean it’s something terribly interesting to read—it could be someone stating that they’ve donated to SIAI, a “rationality quote”, etc.)
Every comment written has a cost—the time people spend reading that comment. So a neutral comment (not helpful, not harmful) has a slightly negative value, if we could measure that precisely. One such comment does not make big harm. Hundred such comments, daily, from different users… that’s a different thing. Each comment should pay the price of time it takes to read it, or be downvoted.
That applies more to several-paragraph comments than to one-sentence ones.
6 instances of too much [*nn2*] (where [*nn2*] is any plural noun);
576 instances of too many [*nn2*];
0 instances of too little [*nn2*]; and
123 instances of too few [*nn2*] (and 83 of not enough [*nn2*], for that matter);
on the Corpus of Contemporary American English the figures are 75, 3217, 11, 323 and 364 respectively. (And many of the minoritarian uses are for things that you’d measure by some means other than counting them, e.g. “too much drugs”.) So apparently the common use of “less” as an informal equivalent of “fewer” only applies to the comparatives. (Edited to remove the “now-” before “common”—in the Corpus of Historical American English less [*nn2*] appears to be actually slightly less common today than it was in the late 19th century.)
Yeah, I know… I just wanted to get the culprit to come right out and say that, in the hope that they would recognize how silly it sounded. There seems to be a voting bloc here on LW that is irrationally opposed to humor, and it’s always bugged me.
Makes plenty of sense to me. Jokes are easy, insight is hard. With the same karma rewards for funny jokes and good insights, there are strong incentives to spend the same time thinking up ten jokes rather than one insight. Soon no work gets done, and what little there is is hidden in a pile of jokes. I hear this killed some subreddits.
Yeah, I’m not saying jokes (with no other content to them) should be upvoted, but I don’t think they need to be downvoted as long as they’re not disruptive to the conversation. I think there’s just a certain faction on here who feels a need to prove to the world how un-redditish LW is, to the point of trying to suck all joy out of human communication.
People who care about that kind of thing usually think it counts as a Name, but don’t think there’s anything wrong with typing it (though it’s still best avoided in case someone prints out the page). Trying to write it makes me squirm horribly and if I absolutely need the whole word I’ll copy-paste it. I can totally write small-g “god” though, to talk about deities in general (or as a polite cuss). I feel absolutely silly about it, I’m an atheist and I’m not even Jewish (though I do have a weird cultural-appropriatey obsession). Oh well, everyone has weird phobias.
Thought experiment: suppose I were to tell you that every time I see you write out “G-d”, I responded by writing “God”, or perhaps even “YHWH”, on a piece of paper, 10 times. Would that knowledge alter your behavior? How about if I instead (or additionally) spoke it aloud?
Edit: downvote explanation requested.
It feels exactly equivalent to telling me that every time you see me turn down licorice, you’ll eat ten wheels of it. It would bother me slightly if you normally avoided taking the Name in vain (and you didn’t, like, consider it a sacred duty to annoy me), but not to the point I’d change my behavior.
Which I didn’t know, but makes sense in hindsight (as hindsight is wont to do); sacredness is a hobby, and I might be miffed at fellow enthusiasts Doing It Wrong, but not at people who prefer fishing or something.
Why should s/he care about what you choose to do?
I don’t know. That’s why I asked.
1) I don’t believe you.
2) I don’t respond to blackmail.
What???!!! Are you suggesting that I’m actually planning on conducting the proposed thought experiment? Actually, physically, getting a piece of paper and writing out the words in question? I assure you, this is not the case. I don’t even have any blank paper in my home—this is the 21st century after all.
This is a thought experiment I’m proposing, in order to help me better understand MixedNuts’ mental model. No different from proposing a thought experiment involving dust motes and eternal torture. Are you saying that Eliezer should be punished for considering such hypothetical situations, a trillion times over?
Yes I know, and my comment was how I would respond in your thought experiment.
(Edited: the first version accidentally implied the opposite of what I intended.)
??? Ok, skipping over the bizarre irrationality of your making that assumption in the first place, now that I’ve clarified the situation and told you in no uncertain terms that I am NOT planning on conducting such an experiment (other than inside my head), are you saying you think I’m lying? You sincerely believe that I literally have a pen and paper in front of me, and I’m going through MixedNuts’s comment history and writing out sacred names for each occurance of “G-d”? Do you actually believe that? Or are you pulling our collective leg?
In the event that you do actually believe that, what kind of evidence might I provide that would change your mind? Or is this an unfalsifiable belief?
Oops. See my edit.
My usual response to reading 2) is to think 1).
I wonder if you really wouldn’t respond to blackmail if the stakes were high and you’d actually lose something critical. “I don’t respond to blackmail” usually means “I claim social dominance in this conflict”.
Not in general, but in this particular instance, the error is in seeing any “conflict” whatsoever. This was not intended as a challenge, or a dick-waving contest, just a sincerely proposed thought experiment in order to help me better understand MixedNuts’ mental model.
(My response was intended to be within the thought experiment mode, not external. I took Eugine’s as being within that mode too.)
Thanks, I apppreciate that. My pique was in response to Eugine’s downvote, not his comment.
“In practice, virtually everyone seems to judge a large matter of principle to be more important than a small one of pragmatics, and vice versa — everyone except philosophers, that is.” (Gary Drescher, Good and Real)
Also:
0) The laws of Moses aren’t even binding on Gentiles.
Isn’t blackmail a little extreme?
Yes, which is why I explicitly labled it as only a thought experiment.
This seems to me to be entirely in keeping with the LW tradition of thought experiments regarding dust particles and eternal torture.… by posing such a question, you’re not actually threatening to torture anybody.
Edit: downvote explantion requested.
Or put a dost mote in everybody’s eye.
Withdrawn.
How interesting. Phobias are a form of alief, which makes this oddly relevant to my recent post.
I don’t think it’s quite the same. I have these sinking moments of “Whew, thank… wait, thank nothing” and “Oh please… crap, nobody’s listening”, but here I don’t feel like I’m being disrespectful to Sky Dude (and if I cared I wouldn’t call him Sky Dude). The emotion is clearly associated with the word, and doesn’t go “whoops, looks like I have no referent” upon reflection.
What seems to be behind it is a feeling that if I did that, I would be practicing my religion wrong, and I like my religion. It’s a jumble of things that give me an oxytocin kick, mostly consciously picked up, but it grows organically and sometimes plucks new dogma out of the environment. (“From now on Ruby Tuesday counts as religious music. Any questions?”) I can’t easily shed a part, it has to stop feeling sacred of its own accord.
Wait… you’re suggesting that the Stones count as sacred? But not the Beatles??????
HERETIC!!!!!!
Edit: downvote explanation requested.
Please don’t do that.
People on this site already give too much upvotes, and too little downvotes. By which I mean that if anyone writes a lot of comments, their total karma is most likely to be positive, even if the comments are mostly useless (as long as they are not offensive, or don’t break some local taboo). People can build a high total karma just by posting a lot, because one thousand comments with average karma of 1 provide more total karma than e.g. twenty comments with 20 karma each. But which of those two would you prefer as a reader, assuming that your goal is not to procrastinate on LW for hours a day?
Every comment written has a cost—the time people spend reading that comment. So a neutral comment (not helpful, not harmful) has a slightly negative value, if we could measure that precisely. One such comment does not make big harm. Hundred such comments, daily, from different users… that’s a different thing. Each comment should pay the price of time it takes to read it, or be downvoted.
People already hesitate to downvote, because expressing a negative opinion about something connected with other person feels like starting an unnecessary conflict. This is an instinct we should try to overcome. Asking for an explanation for a single downvote escalates the conflict. I think it is OK to ask if a seemingly innocent comment gets downvoted to −10, because then there is something to explain. But a single downvote or two, that does not need an explanation. Someone probably just did not think the comment was improving the quality of a discussion.
So what?
When I prefer the latter, I use stuff like Top Comments Today/This Week/whatever, setting my preferences to “Display 10 comments by default” and sorting comments by “Top”, etc. The presence of lots of comments at +1 doesn’t bother me that much. (Also, just because a comment is at +20 doesn’t always mean it’s something terribly interesting to read—it could be someone stating that they’ve donated to SIAI, a “rationality quote”, etc.)
That applies more to several-paragraph comments than to one-sentence ones.
Isn’t it ‘too many upvotes’ and ‘too few downvotes’?
Yep. On the British National Corpus there are:
6 instances of
too much [*nn2*](where[*nn2*]is any plural noun);576 instances of
too many [*nn2*];0 instances of
too little [*nn2*]; and123 instances of
too few [*nn2*](and 83 ofnot enough [*nn2*], for that matter);on the Corpus of Contemporary American English the figures are 75, 3217, 11, 323 and 364 respectively. (And many of the minoritarian uses are for things that you’d measure by some means other than counting them, e.g. “too much drugs”.) So apparently the common use of “less” as an informal equivalent of “fewer” only applies to the comparatives. (Edited to remove the “now-” before “common”—in the Corpus of Historical American English
less [*nn2*]appears to be actually slightly less common today than it was in the late 19th century.)Obviously Across the Universe does, but there’s nothing idiosyncratic about that.
Downvote explanation requested.
’Twasn’t me, but I would guess some people want comments to have a point other than a joke.
Yeah, I know… I just wanted to get the culprit to come right out and say that, in the hope that they would recognize how silly it sounded. There seems to be a voting bloc here on LW that is irrationally opposed to humor, and it’s always bugged me.
Makes plenty of sense to me. Jokes are easy, insight is hard. With the same karma rewards for funny jokes and good insights, there are strong incentives to spend the same time thinking up ten jokes rather than one insight. Soon no work gets done, and what little there is is hidden in a pile of jokes. I hear this killed some subreddits.
Also, it wasn’t that funny.
Yeah, I’m not saying jokes (with no other content to them) should be upvoted, but I don’t think they need to be downvoted as long as they’re not disruptive to the conversation. I think there’s just a certain faction on here who feels a need to prove to the world how un-redditish LW is, to the point of trying to suck all joy out of human communication.
You can eliminate inconvenient phobias with flooding. I can personally recommend sacrilege.
EDIT: It sounds like maybe it’s not just a phobia.
Step 1: learn Italian; step 2: google for “Mario Magnotta” or “Germano Mosconi” or “San Culamo”.