The point is, is it surprising that, given the ethos of the Catholic Church, some priests are pederasts.
No, that’s not surprising at all.
I feel that at some point in this discussion the original point has subtly mutated. Or maybe I didn’t express my point sufficiently clear. Let me try to do this again.
I am confused by vegetarians eating play-pretend meat. This has two aspects. The first is the difference between what I called “external” and “internal” motivations. That’s not really the best terminology so I’d like to amend it. Let me call one motivation need-to motivation and the other one want-to motivation (which correspond to the “external” for the former and “internal” for the latter).
Given this, I would expect the need-to vegetarians to continue to crave meat and to cook stuff to pretend it’s meat. That’s fine. But I do NOT expect the want-to vegetarians to do this.
The second aspect is social norms. It is entirely acceptable in vegetarian circles to post fake-meat recipes and discuss how to make food more meat-like. I am confused by that. In the Catholic Church analogy this corresponds to priests discussing how to make their sex dolls be more life-like. In the AA analogy this corresponds to alcoholics discussing how to emulate getting drunk while drinking non-alcoholic beer. Notice how the social norms of the RCC or AA, um, frown on such activities.
I am trying to figure out what other completely mundane facts you are surprised by.
Oh, how cute! Are you trying to call me naive? :-D
Ok—so you are confused because you think there might be “want-to” vegetarians who like mock meat. Do you know anyone like that? I once dated someone who was vegetarian since a very young age, for cultural reasons, and if I remember correctly, she couldn’t stand meat-like veg dishes.
If vegetarian social circles consist of both need-to and want-to vegetarians, I am not sure what is there to be confused about—it’s just regular old tolerance.
I am unhappy about the need/want distinction, because it smacks of Freud. There are generally more than two things going on.
Ok—so you are confused because you think there might be “want-to” vegetarians who like mock meat. Do you know anyone like that?
Hm. Probably not personally. Are you saying such people do not exist?
I am unhappy about the need/want distinction, because it smacks of Freud. There are generally more than two things going on.
Of course there are more things going on. It’s only a model, to quote Monty Python, and as I said it’s a rough approximation.
However I think it’s a useful rough model. Anders_H who commented in this thread is a good example of a need-to vegetarian—he actually craves meat but doesn’t eat it for animal-suffering and environmental-consequences reasons.
No, that’s not surprising at all.
I feel that at some point in this discussion the original point has subtly mutated. Or maybe I didn’t express my point sufficiently clear. Let me try to do this again.
I am confused by vegetarians eating play-pretend meat. This has two aspects. The first is the difference between what I called “external” and “internal” motivations. That’s not really the best terminology so I’d like to amend it. Let me call one motivation need-to motivation and the other one want-to motivation (which correspond to the “external” for the former and “internal” for the latter).
Given this, I would expect the need-to vegetarians to continue to crave meat and to cook stuff to pretend it’s meat. That’s fine. But I do NOT expect the want-to vegetarians to do this.
The second aspect is social norms. It is entirely acceptable in vegetarian circles to post fake-meat recipes and discuss how to make food more meat-like. I am confused by that. In the Catholic Church analogy this corresponds to priests discussing how to make their sex dolls be more life-like. In the AA analogy this corresponds to alcoholics discussing how to emulate getting drunk while drinking non-alcoholic beer. Notice how the social norms of the RCC or AA, um, frown on such activities.
Oh, how cute! Are you trying to call me naive? :-D
Ok—so you are confused because you think there might be “want-to” vegetarians who like mock meat. Do you know anyone like that? I once dated someone who was vegetarian since a very young age, for cultural reasons, and if I remember correctly, she couldn’t stand meat-like veg dishes.
If vegetarian social circles consist of both need-to and want-to vegetarians, I am not sure what is there to be confused about—it’s just regular old tolerance.
I am unhappy about the need/want distinction, because it smacks of Freud. There are generally more than two things going on.
Hm. Probably not personally. Are you saying such people do not exist?
Of course there are more things going on. It’s only a model, to quote Monty Python, and as I said it’s a rough approximation.
However I think it’s a useful rough model. Anders_H who commented in this thread is a good example of a need-to vegetarian—he actually craves meat but doesn’t eat it for animal-suffering and environmental-consequences reasons.