Again, separate issues here that I think you’re blurring (of I’m just being unclear): I’m not criticizing you for lacking page numbers in the paper excerpt, but for piling on whole-work citations without clarifying what specific insight it adds. I will have to retract that in light of viewing this as an introduction, since you say your paper will cover that later.
WRT page numbers, my criticism was that when someone says, “hey, that claim about [citation of X which I have already read] doesn’t sound right”, then you should give a more helpful answer than “oh, that’s in [citation of X]”—you should point to a more specific passage.
And yes, it would have indeed been helpful if you had said “see the abstract”, because that would have told the questioner (and the onlooker, me, who was wondering the same thing) what you are basing that claim on. In this matter, for the reasons Vladimir gave, TDT isn’t best regarded as an extension of CDT. So a reply that you just got it from the abstract would show that (as turned out to be the case) your claim was based on a summary rather than on a specific analysis of the mechanics of TDT and its relationship to other decision theories.
Edit: I apologize for any abrasiveness in my comments here. I sensed a kind of stubbornness and condescension in your replies and overreacted to that.
WRT page numbers, my criticism was that when someone says, “hey, that claim about [citation of X which I have already read] doesn’t sound right”, then you should give a more helpful answer than “oh, that’s in [citation of X]”—you should point to a more specific passage.
Luke quoted the source and gave a link to it in digital form. If you want to find the context, open it up in Acrobat and copy the quote into the search bar.
It wasn’t in quote form, and like I just said, it matters which instance of the “TDT = extension of CDT” claim lukeprog had in mind. As it turns out, he was relying on a qualification-free summary, rather than the meat of the paper. If he had said so the first time Vladimir asked about it (rather than repeat the exact citation he already gave, and which the questioner had already read and already had the URL for), then he could have saved himself, me, and Vladimir the time it took to unravel this oversimplification (as it turned out to be).
“Find the passage that helps me the most” just isn’t good enough.
Luke’s comment has two paragraphs in quotes, and a link to Eliezer’s TDT paper. If you follow the link, you can copy either of the quoted paragraphs into Acrobats search bar, and it will show where in the document that paragraph appears.
Your first request for clarification that led to this comment was justified. But that should have satisfied your desire for a citation.
That wasn’t until ~3 rounds of back-and-forth! And I didn’t ask further after that; I just said why the previous answers weren’t as helpful. And while the desire for a citation may have been satisfied, the entire point was to reveal the level of understanding which led to his claim about the TDT paper, and that issue was not satisfied by lukeprog’s responses. His exchange with Vladimir, however, did show my concerns to be justified.
Again, if he had just simply said from the beginning, “Oh, I was just copying what the abstract said”, it would have saved everyone a lot of time. But instead, he decided to unhelpfully repeat a citation everyone already knew about, thus hiding his level of understanding for a few more rounds.
You asked for clarification once, and Luke gave a satisfactory response. How do you get “~3 rounds” from that?
I just said why the previous answers weren’t as helpful.
There was no reason for you to do that, you got an answer that addressed those concerns.
And while the desire for a citation may have been satisfied, the entire point was to reveal the level of understanding which led to his claim about the TDT paper, and that issue was not satisfied by lukeprog’s responses.
Notice how Nesov, by focusing back on the object level after the issue of communicating citations was resolved, was able to deal with in this comment.
Again, separate issues here that I think you’re blurring (of I’m just being unclear): I’m not criticizing you for lacking page numbers in the paper excerpt, but for piling on whole-work citations without clarifying what specific insight it adds. I will have to retract that in light of viewing this as an introduction, since you say your paper will cover that later.
WRT page numbers, my criticism was that when someone says, “hey, that claim about [citation of X which I have already read] doesn’t sound right”, then you should give a more helpful answer than “oh, that’s in [citation of X]”—you should point to a more specific passage.
And yes, it would have indeed been helpful if you had said “see the abstract”, because that would have told the questioner (and the onlooker, me, who was wondering the same thing) what you are basing that claim on. In this matter, for the reasons Vladimir gave, TDT isn’t best regarded as an extension of CDT. So a reply that you just got it from the abstract would show that (as turned out to be the case) your claim was based on a summary rather than on a specific analysis of the mechanics of TDT and its relationship to other decision theories.
Edit: I apologize for any abrasiveness in my comments here. I sensed a kind of stubbornness and condescension in your replies and overreacted to that.
Luke quoted the source and gave a link to it in digital form. If you want to find the context, open it up in Acrobat and copy the quote into the search bar.
It wasn’t in quote form, and like I just said, it matters which instance of the “TDT = extension of CDT” claim lukeprog had in mind. As it turns out, he was relying on a qualification-free summary, rather than the meat of the paper. If he had said so the first time Vladimir asked about it (rather than repeat the exact citation he already gave, and which the questioner had already read and already had the URL for), then he could have saved himself, me, and Vladimir the time it took to unravel this oversimplification (as it turned out to be).
“Find the passage that helps me the most” just isn’t good enough.
Luke’s comment has two paragraphs in quotes, and a link to Eliezer’s TDT paper. If you follow the link, you can copy either of the quoted paragraphs into Acrobats search bar, and it will show where in the document that paragraph appears.
Your first request for clarification that led to this comment was justified. But that should have satisfied your desire for a citation.
That wasn’t until ~3 rounds of back-and-forth! And I didn’t ask further after that; I just said why the previous answers weren’t as helpful. And while the desire for a citation may have been satisfied, the entire point was to reveal the level of understanding which led to his claim about the TDT paper, and that issue was not satisfied by lukeprog’s responses. His exchange with Vladimir, however, did show my concerns to be justified.
Again, if he had just simply said from the beginning, “Oh, I was just copying what the abstract said”, it would have saved everyone a lot of time. But instead, he decided to unhelpfully repeat a citation everyone already knew about, thus hiding his level of understanding for a few more rounds.
I don’t know why you’d want to defend that.
You asked for clarification once, and Luke gave a satisfactory response. How do you get “~3 rounds” from that?
There was no reason for you to do that, you got an answer that addressed those concerns.
Notice how Nesov, by focusing back on the object level after the issue of communicating citations was resolved, was able to deal with in this comment.