I think it’s an antisocial move to put forth a predictably inflammatory thesis (e.g., that an esteemed community member is a pseudo-intellectual not worth reading) and then preemptively refuse to defend it. If the thesis is right, then it would be good for us to be convinced of it, but that won’t happen if we don’t get to hear the real arguments in favor. And if it’s wrong, then it should be put to bed before it creates a lot of unproductive social conflict, but that also won’t happen as long as people can claim that we haven’t heard the real arguments in favor (kind of like the motte-and-bailey doctrine).
I don’t doubt your sincerity in that you’re doing this because you don’t believe the thesis yourself, but your friend does. But I don’t think that makes it okay. If your friend, or at least someone who actually believes the thesis, is not going to explain why it should be taken seriously, then it’s bound to be net negative for intellectual progress and you shouldn’t post it.
It appears that you are somehow commenting as a deleted user. The database suggests your account was deleted during LW 1.0. I don’t know the reason for why your account might have been deleted, but I can restore access to it if you want, otherwise I will remove your login privileges.
I think it’s best to restore it, I would have just used my throwaway otherwise and I discovered that I could still log in by a fluke. Although I was enjoying being anonymous while it lasted. Why aren’t deleted accounts just taken off of the database entirely? That seems like a holdover from using Reddit as the forum engine.
I was clarifying my intentions, but my friend, who is the main draw for the event, does intend to defend the thesis Scott is a pseudo-intellectual not worth reading. The real arguments will be up in a little over a week though.
Then I think the post should have waited until those arguments were up, so that the discussion could be about their merits. The problem is the “hyping it up to Be An Internet Event”, as Ray put it in a different subthread; since the thing you’re hyping up is so inflammatory, we’re left in the position of having arguments about it without knowing what the real case for it is.
… since the thing you’re hyping up is so inflammatory, we’re left in the position of having arguments about it without knowing what the real case for it is.
Are we, though? Must we have arguments about it? What reason is there for us not to say something like, “this raises red flags but we’ll consider and discuss it properly after it takes place; make sure to document it properly and exhaustively, to signal to us all that you are acting in good faith”, and then say no more for now?
Can’t speak for all the mods, but this is roughly my model of the situation. I don’t think there is currently any action necessary, I don’t think it was a mistake to post here about the meetup (after it had already been planned), but do think that the meetup sends a lot of red flags, but we can discuss its effects further after it actually happened.
That is the type of response I’ve gotten from you, Scott, and the LW mods, for which I’m grateful. To be clear, in this thread I made clear our intent to indeed document all this properly and exhaustively, which we would have done anyway for posterity, but, in light of the comments, we will also do to signal our good faith.
I think it’s an antisocial move to put forth a predictably inflammatory thesis (e.g., that an esteemed community member is a pseudo-intellectual not worth reading) and then preemptively refuse to defend it. If the thesis is right, then it would be good for us to be convinced of it, but that won’t happen if we don’t get to hear the real arguments in favor. And if it’s wrong, then it should be put to bed before it creates a lot of unproductive social conflict, but that also won’t happen as long as people can claim that we haven’t heard the real arguments in favor (kind of like the motte-and-bailey doctrine).
I don’t doubt your sincerity in that you’re doing this because you don’t believe the thesis yourself, but your friend does. But I don’t think that makes it okay. If your friend, or at least someone who actually believes the thesis, is not going to explain why it should be taken seriously, then it’s bound to be net negative for intellectual progress and you shouldn’t post it.
Meetup hasn’t happened yet. Should the refutations be given on your time frame?
It appears that you are somehow commenting as a deleted user. The database suggests your account was deleted during LW 1.0. I don’t know the reason for why your account might have been deleted, but I can restore access to it if you want, otherwise I will remove your login privileges.
I think it’s best to restore it, I would have just used my throwaway otherwise and I discovered that I could still log in by a fluke. Although I was enjoying being anonymous while it lasted. Why aren’t deleted accounts just taken off of the database entirely? That seems like a holdover from using Reddit as the forum engine.
We still use the account data for spam-detection and a bunch of related things. So that’s why we keep the data around. Will restore your account.
Ha, if it’s any condolence I did delete the account myself three-ish years ago.
I was clarifying my intentions, but my friend, who is the main draw for the event, does intend to defend the thesis Scott is a pseudo-intellectual not worth reading. The real arguments will be up in a little over a week though.
Then I think the post should have waited until those arguments were up, so that the discussion could be about their merits. The problem is the “hyping it up to Be An Internet Event”, as Ray put it in a different subthread; since the thing you’re hyping up is so inflammatory, we’re left in the position of having arguments about it without knowing what the real case for it is.
Are we, though? Must we have arguments about it? What reason is there for us not to say something like, “this raises red flags but we’ll consider and discuss it properly after it takes place; make sure to document it properly and exhaustively, to signal to us all that you are acting in good faith”, and then say no more for now?
Can’t speak for all the mods, but this is roughly my model of the situation. I don’t think there is currently any action necessary, I don’t think it was a mistake to post here about the meetup (after it had already been planned), but do think that the meetup sends a lot of red flags, but we can discuss its effects further after it actually happened.
That is the type of response I’ve gotten from you, Scott, and the LW mods, for which I’m grateful. To be clear, in this thread I made clear our intent to indeed document all this properly and exhaustively, which we would have done anyway for posterity, but, in light of the comments, we will also do to signal our good faith.