If that non-OECD number is to be believed, 2% of non-OECD GDP goes to fuel subsidies. Or, if you prefer to think of it this way, it’s close to 1⁄3 of the total world oil market to fossil fuel subsidies. And this number comes from a think-tank that’s obviously out to make an anti-subsidy point, with no detail as to where it came from or why we should believe it. Think tanks aren’t to be immediately dismissed, but they frequently exaggerate badly.
And the discussion is about why renewables get used. German use of renewables is very different than Canadian or Congolese, and aggregating them leads to muddy thinking and useless stats. Germans use modern renewables because the government is dumping a bloody lot of money into the industry. Canadians use renewables because we have massive amounts of easily-tapped hydroelectric potential, and hydro dams are the cheapest source of power known. Congolese use renewables because they have no better options than burning wood.
I’ll agree with you that some poor countries spend a lot on subsidizing gasoline, but it’s only a lot by poor-country standards, and it’s hardly all of them. I want a better source than naked statement of a number from a biased group before I’ll believe it adds up to that staggering a sum. And even if it does, that has no impact on the US, where fossil fuel is nearly unsubsidized—if you want me to think that renewables and an “energy internet” are a good choice for the US, then you need to explain how switching from a cheaper source to one that’s more expensive even with bigger subsidies is a net cost savings.
I still do not understand your objective in this discussion. It seems that you are implicitly against subsidising renewable energy. Is this correct?
(I work in the oil and gas industry, by the way, so fossil fuel subsidies sort of help me out...).
For that matter, I do not understand the upvotes in this thread. A citation was asked for—then it was provided—and then there are several posts attempting to invalidate the citation, attracting upvotes. Strange.
I want a better source than naked statement of a number from a biased group
We all do… could you please provide one?
if you want me to think that renewables … are a good choice for the US...
I don’t know when this discussion started to be about the US, and I don’t know if I really care enough about what you think to put in more effort… are you in a position to influence what the US chooses? If yes, then I will explain why this statement:
how switching from a cheaper source [presumably fossil fuels] to one that’s more expensive [presumably renewable energy]
I am explicitly against subsidies, full stop. I am also of the belief that the fashionable sorts of renewables(wind, solar, etc.) get vastly more subsidies than any other form of power, particularly in the developed world, and this belief is borne out by my own experiences with my local government and with stories from elsewhere. And I thought the US was being discussed, because it usually is, but looking upthread it seems I was in error there. If any country was being discussed it was Germany, though their example is hardly different—they’re spending a ton of money for an inferior power source.
If that non-OECD number is to be believed, 2% of non-OECD GDP goes to fuel subsidies. Or, if you prefer to think of it this way, it’s close to 1⁄3 of the total world oil market to fossil fuel subsidies. And this number comes from a think-tank that’s obviously out to make an anti-subsidy point, with no detail as to where it came from or why we should believe it. Think tanks aren’t to be immediately dismissed, but they frequently exaggerate badly.
And the discussion is about why renewables get used. German use of renewables is very different than Canadian or Congolese, and aggregating them leads to muddy thinking and useless stats. Germans use modern renewables because the government is dumping a bloody lot of money into the industry. Canadians use renewables because we have massive amounts of easily-tapped hydroelectric potential, and hydro dams are the cheapest source of power known. Congolese use renewables because they have no better options than burning wood.
I’ll agree with you that some poor countries spend a lot on subsidizing gasoline, but it’s only a lot by poor-country standards, and it’s hardly all of them. I want a better source than naked statement of a number from a biased group before I’ll believe it adds up to that staggering a sum. And even if it does, that has no impact on the US, where fossil fuel is nearly unsubsidized—if you want me to think that renewables and an “energy internet” are a good choice for the US, then you need to explain how switching from a cheaper source to one that’s more expensive even with bigger subsidies is a net cost savings.
I still do not understand your objective in this discussion. It seems that you are implicitly against subsidising renewable energy. Is this correct?
(I work in the oil and gas industry, by the way, so fossil fuel subsidies sort of help me out...).
For that matter, I do not understand the upvotes in this thread. A citation was asked for—then it was provided—and then there are several posts attempting to invalidate the citation, attracting upvotes. Strange.
We all do… could you please provide one?
I don’t know when this discussion started to be about the US, and I don’t know if I really care enough about what you think to put in more effort… are you in a position to influence what the US chooses? If yes, then I will explain why this statement:
is wrong.
I am explicitly against subsidies, full stop. I am also of the belief that the fashionable sorts of renewables(wind, solar, etc.) get vastly more subsidies than any other form of power, particularly in the developed world, and this belief is borne out by my own experiences with my local government and with stories from elsewhere. And I thought the US was being discussed, because it usually is, but looking upthread it seems I was in error there. If any country was being discussed it was Germany, though their example is hardly different—they’re spending a ton of money for an inferior power source.