Do you evaluate kittens, small children, and the like as potential partners as well, then? “Cute” can come from a lot of places, not all of them shorthand for “attractive in a mateseeking way.”
The question was what would happen if everyone became bisexual; I presumed everything else would stay constant.
My point in that actual section was that the problems you’re talking about seemed less like costs one could universally infer as arising from the button-press, and more like you projecting your own relationship difficulties onto other people. I wasn’t advocating monogamy as an additional button-press to fix the problem you see, I was pointing out that the problem you’re talking about already has solutions that don’t disappear if we press this button, and that the problem as you stated it seems to have more bearing on you specifically than on humanity in general.
“Cute” can come from a lot of places, not all of them shorthand for “attractive in a mateseeking way.”
You’re right, “sexy” would have been a better word to use there.
My point in that actual section was that the problems you’re talking about seemed less like costs one could universally infer as arising from the button-press, and more like you projecting your own relationship difficulties onto other people.
I see how it could seem that way, but that is not the case from my perspective. My relationship difficulties stem mostly from the small size of the gay dating pool and the attractiveness of my straight male friends. If everyone were bisexual, my dating pool would be massively larger and my male friends might be interested in me, and thus I would probably be better off.
But when I look at straight people around me, and ask myself what their difficulties are, and ask if bisexuality is likely to make them worse off or better off, it seems to me unlikely that the gains would outweigh the losses. The solutions you suggest- I would prefer the term “strategies”- are sometimes employed successfully, and sometimes not, and it’s not clear to me if bisexuality being the norm makes them more likely to be employed successfully.
I see how it could seem that way, but that is not the case from my perspective. My relationship difficulties stem mostly from the small size of the gay dating pool and the attractiveness of my straight male friends
Small size of the dating pool where you are specifically, or your perceptions of its small size generally? It’s an important distinction...
(I ask because in theory my own dating pool is quite small: I’m transgendered, polyamorous, bi, autistic, disabled—my dating pool might seem very small when performing a naive analysis just because anyone willing/able to deal with dating someone who’s one of those things is still not necessarily willing/able to deal with all the others, and intuitively the more you stack on such multipliers the harder it is to find people who fulfill those conditions...yet I’m in something like five concurrent relationships right now, and go on dates with new people several times a year at minimum. I’m not enjoying straight-up statistical cluster benefits from being bi and poly; being any of the other things has been a serious handicap in those circles in my experience...so a cursory look at the estimated size of my dating pool is very misleading, because clearly I can and do have lots of relationships...being poly just makes it possible to do so concurrently.)
As for the attractiveness of your straight male friends, how does that actually cause relationship difficulties? Presumably you’re not getting into romantic relationships with them?
The solutions you suggest- I would prefer the term “strategies”- are sometimes employed successfully, and sometimes not
I guess I just don’t see how an uptick in unrequited attractions is a fundamental issue. If most people couldn’t find a suitable partner, then it would be more obviously an issue, but...hell, I get unrequited feelings for people all the time, it sucks and it hurts, sometimes a lot, but does it really impair people in a long-term sense? In a way that existing coping mechanisms couldn’t account for?
As for the attractiveness of your straight male friends, how does that actually cause relationship difficulties? Presumably you’re not getting into romantic relationships with them?
It is unpleasant to have desires no amount of planning or effort could deliver, and not be able to convince the source of that desire of that desire’s futility without risking something. It is a sad thing to lose a friend by asking them out, and a sadder thing to be in turmoil over when and how.
does it really impair people in a long-term sense?
Does it need to be long-term for it to be a cost?
Were I to explain my intuition about the long-term and broad consequences, I would talk about things like reduced population growth, increased STD prevalence, and possibly decreased social harmony. Talking about something like social harmony is easier to do if you start off with the short-term and small-scale, though.
(I ask because in theory my own dating pool is quite small: I’m transgendered, polyamorous, bi, autistic, disabled—my dating pool might seem very small when performing a naive analysis just because anyone willing/able to deal with dating someone who’s one of those things is still not necessarily willing/able to deal with all the others, and intuitively the more you stack on such multipliers the harder it is to find people who fulfill those conditions...yet I’m in something like five concurrent relationships right now, and go on dates with new people several times a year at minimum. I’m not enjoying straight-up statistical cluster benefits from being bi and poly; being any of the other things has been a serious handicap in those circles in my experience...so a cursory look at the estimated size of my dating pool is very misleading, because clearly I can and do have lots of relationships...being poly just makes it possible to do so concurrently.)
A small pool in statistical terms can still be shockingly large in absolute terms, given the number of humans currently alive. People who tolerate, or outright prefer, those qualities in a prospective mate will have an equally limited pool of prospective mates, and react with a corresponding degree of enthusiasm.
A small pool in statistical terms can still be shockingly large in absolute terms, given the number of humans currently alive.
That would be my point in its entirety, yes.
People who tolerate, or outright prefer, those qualities in a prospective mate will have an equally limited pool of prospective mates
Does not follow at all. People who like, or seek some subset of those qualities might still be considered very desirable in the eyes of a large number of others.
(Hell, I can think of several past and present partners of mine who were positively spoiled for choice, and mostly dated folks who weren’t those things, and still found me interesting as a mate...)
and react with a corresponding degree of enthusiasm.
Yeah, no. I think you have a straw model of attraction here.
Do you evaluate kittens, small children, and the like as potential partners as well, then? “Cute” can come from a lot of places, not all of them shorthand for “attractive in a mateseeking way.”
My point in that actual section was that the problems you’re talking about seemed less like costs one could universally infer as arising from the button-press, and more like you projecting your own relationship difficulties onto other people. I wasn’t advocating monogamy as an additional button-press to fix the problem you see, I was pointing out that the problem you’re talking about already has solutions that don’t disappear if we press this button, and that the problem as you stated it seems to have more bearing on you specifically than on humanity in general.
You’re right, “sexy” would have been a better word to use there.
I see how it could seem that way, but that is not the case from my perspective. My relationship difficulties stem mostly from the small size of the gay dating pool and the attractiveness of my straight male friends. If everyone were bisexual, my dating pool would be massively larger and my male friends might be interested in me, and thus I would probably be better off.
But when I look at straight people around me, and ask myself what their difficulties are, and ask if bisexuality is likely to make them worse off or better off, it seems to me unlikely that the gains would outweigh the losses. The solutions you suggest- I would prefer the term “strategies”- are sometimes employed successfully, and sometimes not, and it’s not clear to me if bisexuality being the norm makes them more likely to be employed successfully.
Small size of the dating pool where you are specifically, or your perceptions of its small size generally? It’s an important distinction...
(I ask because in theory my own dating pool is quite small: I’m transgendered, polyamorous, bi, autistic, disabled—my dating pool might seem very small when performing a naive analysis just because anyone willing/able to deal with dating someone who’s one of those things is still not necessarily willing/able to deal with all the others, and intuitively the more you stack on such multipliers the harder it is to find people who fulfill those conditions...yet I’m in something like five concurrent relationships right now, and go on dates with new people several times a year at minimum. I’m not enjoying straight-up statistical cluster benefits from being bi and poly; being any of the other things has been a serious handicap in those circles in my experience...so a cursory look at the estimated size of my dating pool is very misleading, because clearly I can and do have lots of relationships...being poly just makes it possible to do so concurrently.)
As for the attractiveness of your straight male friends, how does that actually cause relationship difficulties? Presumably you’re not getting into romantic relationships with them?
I guess I just don’t see how an uptick in unrequited attractions is a fundamental issue. If most people couldn’t find a suitable partner, then it would be more obviously an issue, but...hell, I get unrequited feelings for people all the time, it sucks and it hurts, sometimes a lot, but does it really impair people in a long-term sense? In a way that existing coping mechanisms couldn’t account for?
It is unpleasant to have desires no amount of planning or effort could deliver, and not be able to convince the source of that desire of that desire’s futility without risking something. It is a sad thing to lose a friend by asking them out, and a sadder thing to be in turmoil over when and how.
Does it need to be long-term for it to be a cost?
Were I to explain my intuition about the long-term and broad consequences, I would talk about things like reduced population growth, increased STD prevalence, and possibly decreased social harmony. Talking about something like social harmony is easier to do if you start off with the short-term and small-scale, though.
A small pool in statistical terms can still be shockingly large in absolute terms, given the number of humans currently alive. People who tolerate, or outright prefer, those qualities in a prospective mate will have an equally limited pool of prospective mates, and react with a corresponding degree of enthusiasm.
That would be my point in its entirety, yes.
Does not follow at all. People who like, or seek some subset of those qualities might still be considered very desirable in the eyes of a large number of others.
(Hell, I can think of several past and present partners of mine who were positively spoiled for choice, and mostly dated folks who weren’t those things, and still found me interesting as a mate...)
Yeah, no. I think you have a straw model of attraction here.