Rosenberg was a convicted felon, but not on any crime related to writing skills.
Is still feels strange to me that people who participate in terrorist groups, rob banks, etc. are welcome at universities; while people who suggest that maybe women have less mathematical geniuses than men are unwelcome.
Just to make sure, is it important whether the terrorism is left-wing or right-wing? Would that university be OK to hire Anders Breivik for writing lessons? I mean, he did some crazy stuff, but none of that is related to writing skills.
First, the bar for “guest speaker” is lower than for “tenured faculty.” Yes, importance comes in degrees.
Second, I will admit to flippancy, though not on the order of suggesting an equivalence with Breivik. My comment was getting too long as it was, and I sacrificed seriousness for concision and out of impatience. Mea culpa.
Regardless of leftist or rightist motives, Rosenberg was a dangerous criminal and deserved to spend time in jail, though I think her sentence was too harsh. People who suggest that there are fewer mathematical geniuses amongst women than men don’t go to prison, and in fact, I doubt that many would disagree with that statement. That was a specific example of gender differences in intelligence given in my high school psychology textbook. They’re quite welcome, actually. More controversial is the proposition that this is a result of an essential gender difference, but people on both sides of that question are (typically) quite welcome. I know some exceptions here, but correct me if I’m mistaken in the typical case.
Let’s return to what I’ve been saying all along: I have a problem with privileging bad ideas, but bad ideas are not to be automatically criminal. Yet there should be a cost associated with espousing those non-criminal bad ideas. Rosenberg’s ideas were very seriously criminal: she faced a very serious cost. The cost of her past deeds in evaluating whether to invite her as a guest speaker has been reduced—though it still exists.
(Tangent: If holocaust denialism were to be banned here as it has been in France and Austria, I would be encouraging universities to fill Irving’s schedule.)
Returning to the context, I took Paquette’s list of “look who they’ll invite!” as insinuating that there are no standards when it comes to the left, while implying that center-right ideas are verboten. That remains false.
All of us, to some extent, though publishers, administrators, corporate boards, managers, faculty, and editors have much more say. Is there some interesting followup to the obvious here?
The evidence for their being better at this than laymen is at best mixed. Editors and media are bad at sufficiently filtering things like climate change denial and creationism, while faculty and administrators are better. I would argue that everyone on that list is likely to have a “neutrality bias”, by which I mean they are often more concerned with appearing “objective” or “centrist” than they are with saying true things. Both the left and right operate large “flak industries” to try to shift what counts as “objective” in one direction or the other.
They became better with racism, but only with the help of popular movements. Legislation made them better about persons with disabilities. We’re seeing similar shifts right now concerning sexism and homophobia.
It would be difficult to get an very accurate picture of where such elites do well and badly. The metric would have to involve a specification of what counts as “correct” or “popular” morality, as well as the epistemic merit of a huge variety of politically-charged positions. If you want to get past simple outcome-based statements concerning a specific position, it’s a hard problem. Do they do well enough to maintain a diverse, intellectually stimulating environment?
Media editors? No. Corporate boards and managers? Sometimes, but very often no. Publishers? A mix. University administrators and faculty? Mostly yes.
Are they “getting it right” when they select against racialists and Stalinists? Yes.
What standard are you using to judge whether they’re correct or not? I disagree with most of your answers. I’m guessing that if I pressed you enough, you’d wind up answering “the gate keepers (especially the ones at universities) are more-or-less doing a good job, I know this because they told me so”.
I pause to add to a different comment of mine from elsewhere in this thread, where I stated that right-wing libertarians are over-represented. I happen to think that this is a good thing, even if I think that right-wing libertarian ideology is wrong, and if consistently implemented, morally awful.
At the university level, at least, they tend to be much more interesting to talk to than people who agree with me. They also provide an excellent service: if you want to know what’s wrong with particular government policies you’ve never heard of, libertarians will happily assist you.
What standard are you using to judge whether they’re correct or not?
Several. Here’s an example: do they tend to promote true ideas over false ones, even on politicized topics? Yes. It makes a lot of movement conservatives and radical environmentalists angry, but they do. This is anecdotal, but I have an easier time finding people willing to listen to my unpopular ideas amongst students and faculty than I do with my neighbors.
I’m guessing that pressed you enough, you’d wind up answering “the gate keepers (especially the ones at universities) are more-or-less doing a good job, I know this because they told me so”.
And you’d be guessing incorrectly. See the previous response. I suppose you’re working on the response to a previous comment of mine wherein I asked you to describe what you think the political atmosphere at universities to be like. I will also refer back to my first comment, wherein I asked whether or not intellectual diversity has been improving or not—I think it has been.
Is still feels strange to me that people who participate in terrorist groups, rob banks, etc. are welcome at universities; while people who suggest that maybe women have less mathematical geniuses than men are unwelcome.
Just to make sure, is it important whether the terrorism is left-wing or right-wing? Would that university be OK to hire Anders Breivik for writing lessons? I mean, he did some crazy stuff, but none of that is related to writing skills.
First, the bar for “guest speaker” is lower than for “tenured faculty.” Yes, importance comes in degrees.
Second, I will admit to flippancy, though not on the order of suggesting an equivalence with Breivik. My comment was getting too long as it was, and I sacrificed seriousness for concision and out of impatience. Mea culpa.
Regardless of leftist or rightist motives, Rosenberg was a dangerous criminal and deserved to spend time in jail, though I think her sentence was too harsh. People who suggest that there are fewer mathematical geniuses amongst women than men don’t go to prison, and in fact, I doubt that many would disagree with that statement. That was a specific example of gender differences in intelligence given in my high school psychology textbook. They’re quite welcome, actually. More controversial is the proposition that this is a result of an essential gender difference, but people on both sides of that question are (typically) quite welcome. I know some exceptions here, but correct me if I’m mistaken in the typical case.
Let’s return to what I’ve been saying all along: I have a problem with privileging bad ideas, but bad ideas are not to be automatically criminal. Yet there should be a cost associated with espousing those non-criminal bad ideas. Rosenberg’s ideas were very seriously criminal: she faced a very serious cost. The cost of her past deeds in evaluating whether to invite her as a guest speaker has been reduced—though it still exists.
(Tangent: If holocaust denialism were to be banned here as it has been in France and Austria, I would be encouraging universities to fill Irving’s schedule.)
Returning to the context, I took Paquette’s list of “look who they’ll invite!” as insinuating that there are no standards when it comes to the left, while implying that center-right ideas are verboten. That remains false.
Ok, what about Kathy Boudin or Bill Ayers?
The question is who determine which ideas are bad.
A high burden of proof for both.
The answer is that about everybody makes this determination whether you want them to or not.
Specifically, my question was “who determines which ideas are officially considered ‘bad’ for purposes of not being institutionally privileged?”
All of us, to some extent, though publishers, administrators, corporate boards, managers, faculty, and editors have much more say. Is there some interesting followup to the obvious here?
Is there any evidence that these gatekeepers are particularly good at making this judgement?
The evidence for their being better at this than laymen is at best mixed. Editors and media are bad at sufficiently filtering things like climate change denial and creationism, while faculty and administrators are better. I would argue that everyone on that list is likely to have a “neutrality bias”, by which I mean they are often more concerned with appearing “objective” or “centrist” than they are with saying true things. Both the left and right operate large “flak industries” to try to shift what counts as “objective” in one direction or the other.
They became better with racism, but only with the help of popular movements. Legislation made them better about persons with disabilities. We’re seeing similar shifts right now concerning sexism and homophobia.
It would be difficult to get an very accurate picture of where such elites do well and badly. The metric would have to involve a specification of what counts as “correct” or “popular” morality, as well as the epistemic merit of a huge variety of politically-charged positions. If you want to get past simple outcome-based statements concerning a specific position, it’s a hard problem. Do they do well enough to maintain a diverse, intellectually stimulating environment?
Media editors? No. Corporate boards and managers? Sometimes, but very often no. Publishers? A mix. University administrators and faculty? Mostly yes.
Are they “getting it right” when they select against racialists and Stalinists? Yes.
What standard are you using to judge whether they’re correct or not? I disagree with most of your answers. I’m guessing that if I pressed you enough, you’d wind up answering “the gate keepers (especially the ones at universities) are more-or-less doing a good job, I know this because they told me so”.
I pause to add to a different comment of mine from elsewhere in this thread, where I stated that right-wing libertarians are over-represented. I happen to think that this is a good thing, even if I think that right-wing libertarian ideology is wrong, and if consistently implemented, morally awful.
At the university level, at least, they tend to be much more interesting to talk to than people who agree with me. They also provide an excellent service: if you want to know what’s wrong with particular government policies you’ve never heard of, libertarians will happily assist you.
This may be true in economic departments, this is most definitely not true in universities in general.
Several. Here’s an example: do they tend to promote true ideas over false ones, even on politicized topics? Yes. It makes a lot of movement conservatives and radical environmentalists angry, but they do. This is anecdotal, but I have an easier time finding people willing to listen to my unpopular ideas amongst students and faculty than I do with my neighbors.
And you’d be guessing incorrectly. See the previous response. I suppose you’re working on the response to a previous comment of mine wherein I asked you to describe what you think the political atmosphere at universities to be like. I will also refer back to my first comment, wherein I asked whether or not intellectual diversity has been improving or not—I think it has been.
This is what is known as circular reasoning.